Thanks to Yotam Hadar for the tip.
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Matheus’s comment is:
It's all the same
They should learn from AC/DC and Metallica
On Nov.20.2008 at 09:59 PM
Paul Peterson’s comment is:
I can never read the damn things, sometimes even under careful examination.
On Nov.20.2008 at 10:40 PM
b0p’s comment is:
Hooray for ballpoint pen "logos". Every high school class has a bunch of people drawing that stuff on school books and pencil cases. It's nice to see someone can actually make a living off it. Oh, wait, he can't.
On Nov.20.2008 at 11:05 PM
Ep’s comment is:
Art? Yes. Legible? No.
On Nov.20.2008 at 11:14 PM
Anonymous’s comment is:
If the logos didn't have veins/tree branches/moss hanging off of them, they might be somewhat legible and tolerable.
As they are shown, these logos are awful in every way. I can only imagine that the "music" these bands make is even worse.
BTW, some of these band names are hilarious.
(Spinage? Ezagoroth? I wonder if some of these band
names also double as names for their D&D characters)
Paul Cooley’s comment is:
Whoa, bummer...I was hoping people would be a little more welcoming of this "different" take on logotype.
I mean it's no perfectly kerned Helvetica Neue Logo...but i find them compelling and successful in their context.
I myself am an avid fan of music in all forms and over the past 5 years or so have really come to enjoy a lot of the more intense and complicated genres of metal out there.
Bands like Deathspell Omega, Blut Aus Nord, Gorguts, Watain...etc are all extremely talented musicians and artists who pull from a rich history, be it culturally, musically, or even religiously (just check out the lyrics for any of Deathspell Omega's songs on their "Kenose"ep).
I mean i appreciate a good logo as much as the next lady or gentleman on this wonderful day-making blog, but i beg everybody to just look a little further into black metal lore and metal in general as see that there is a lot to appreciate and tickle anyone's casual curiosity.
Thanks for this wonderful post Armin!
On Nov.21.2008 at 01:54 AM
Jason’s comment is:
I think they're great! They are very appropriate. The music is not accessible and is very harsh thus it's visual interpretation follows suit.
These logos appeal to the correct target audience.
On Nov.21.2008 at 02:47 AM
Kaz’s comment is:
I can hardly call that "music", but it's only my personal opinion, I have some friends who love that stuff and I respect that.
The "logos" are all the same, I mean, this guy learned one technique and has been doing the same for years, isn't he bored? It's like doing gradients and swooshes all the time... oh, wait...
On Nov.21.2008 at 04:21 AM
Bruno’s comment is:
Kaz, whatever it is we have no clue about will always look or sound same-ish. I have to agree with your "oh, wait...".
On Nov.21.2008 at 04:46 AM
patrick’s comment is:
They are much too similar, eg, pointy or sawlike. And I suppose, I don't like to think of the music itself that way; I would rather envision it as "evolutionary."
On Nov.21.2008 at 04:56 AM
Rodrigo Müller’s comment is:
I think my dad's glasses wouldn't help reading this...
On Nov.21.2008 at 05:59 AM
Colin’s comment is:
Music of the genre is all the same garbled mess. Logos are all the same garbled mess. Quite pragmatic, actually.
On Nov.21.2008 at 06:01 AM
Daryl’s comment is:
I can't believe some people here are complaining about the legibility of these logos. Oh no, you won't be able to read Fenriz's name on Darkthrone's letterhead and business cards :( !
Paul & Jason's comments hit the nail on the head
On Nov.21.2008 at 08:00 AM
JonSel’s comment is:
It's the evil Marian Bantjes!
On Nov.21.2008 at 09:12 AM
Anonymous’s comment is:
And, my God, how will it embroider?!
On Nov.21.2008 at 09:16 AM
Armin’s comment is:
Sorry, that anonymous post was me, not sure what happened.
On Nov.21.2008 at 09:46 AM
rickyaustin’s comment is:
I do find it a bit ironic that people will slam these for being all the same but will worship every tightly kerned humanistic sans-serif logotype on the planet.
Just sayin'
Chris Herron’s comment is:
It's all about the target audience.
To listeners immersed in the dark metal sub-genres, these logos are indicative of the nature of the entities they represent. And if you look at these logos on a daily basis, their subtleties are quite apparent.
Too often, we judge creative work based on personal taste, rather than on the task at hand.
Christophe is an artist in the truest sense of the word.
On Nov.21.2008 at 11:06 AM
JB’s comment is:
Some of his better logos are not in here - but a lot of these are great. As far as illegible, it's the style. A lot of them fit the mood of the music or the band's look.
Some logos, such as Emperor's - have become a fairly decent brand, they utilize the large "E" on banners, flags, etc.
On Nov.21.2008 at 11:11 AM
Rob’s comment is:
Let's see. Imperceptible lyrics, for the most part, crashing guitars creating not much beyond electronic noise with a drum beat always their to keep some semblance of time. (All of this my humble opinion by they way)
The logos match the music. I may not like them but they work. And that's the most important factor of all.
On Nov.21.2008 at 02:56 PM
Bruce’s comment is:
I think I've seen his work in the rear windows of pickup trucks around Atlanta.
On Nov.21.2008 at 03:58 PM
Joel’s comment is:
Seriously good job on the mirroring. Some letters look like others just for the sake of making the logo symmetric but I think the outcome is impressive in how every corresponding letter on each side of the word matches the other one nearly exactly in every single logo.
On Nov.21.2008 at 04:02 PM
mark’s comment is:
Death metal bands apparently don't know how to reflect the changing needs of a modern global death metal audience. I think a carefully crafted sphere with an insightful representation of global ubiquity through the application of gradients would be the ideal avatar to these bands to reach a new generation of anger filled teenagers.
On Nov.21.2008 at 04:56 PM
Derek’s comment is:
Legibility?
art nouveau, psychedelic posters based on art nouveau, graffiti Tags, are examples of the same kind of behavior in the arts.
It's already been said, but yeah, it's partly about inaccessibility – at the same time an identifier for a counter-culture.
On Nov.21.2008 at 04:57 PM
DanR’s comment is:
For what they are, I admire them. One a day for 20 years ain't bad.
Glenn Sakamoto’s comment is:
I must be getting too old. They all look the same to me...
On Nov.21.2008 at 09:31 PM
Su’s comment is:
JonSel: A couple of these like the Apparitia and Chasma logos do have definite shades of Marian to me. I'd really like to see her chime in here.
I must be getting too old. They all look the same to me...
It's nothing to do with your age. That's not even an opinion; you're just lying for the sake of a (weak) snipe. Do you seriously assert that the logos at top and bottom of the second column look the same? There are several discernible styles here.
(Incidentally, I know someone who thinks Paula Scher's been doing the same thing for twenty years. Anybody wanna take that one on?)
Then we have Rob's "semblance of time." Assuming you've listened at all, because I'm an optimist, if you step outside your dislike for the music long enough to pay attention to it on technical terms, you'll often find the instrumentation, particularly the drumming, exceedingly precise, outside the wall of sound sections. The Cookie Monster vocals(interesting precedents section, by the way)...well, comprehension is obviously not at the top of the list there. Intentionally.
It's rather curious—and more than a bit disappointing—to see people who do what you all do so incapable of establishing, or leaving, context. Raygun was also generally unreadable. Does it get some sort of pass because someone in the family was behind it?
On Nov.22.2008 at 07:35 AM
chris d’s comment is:
The "Nailed God", "Lord Marhain" and "Nox Eternus" logos are just amazing. I love seeing stuff like this, design or a particular style that's evolved to fill the needs of some out-of-sight sub-culture. The few negative reactions here are dissapointing but not entirely surprising.
Every now and then something different like this is needed to shift our perspectives, expand our horizons and broaden our minds, both as designers and as human beings. I bet there is something of value that anyone could take from viewing this work, whether they realize it or not.
Great post, Armin!
On Nov.22.2008 at 01:56 PM
ChrisM70’s comment is:
My problem with these logos isn't the style - the hand-made lettering is pretty cool, and the way some of the letters intertwine is really interesting. I see a little bit of Margo Chase in some of the designs.
My problem with them is the craftsmanship. The crudeness of them feels like each logo was knocked out in about 5 minutes on the back of a notebook during algebra class. I wonder sometimes if any terrible design can be excused away by just saying "well, it's aimed at a different audience than you and your stiff, uptight design types."
How low is the bar of good design set?
I think people would have less trouble thinking of these band designs as good if they weren't so horribly executed.
On Nov.22.2008 at 03:15 PM
ChrisM70’s comment is:
I think I was a little harsh.
To be fair, I gave these logos a second look, and perhaps I went a little overboard on my criticism. They DO have some craftsmanship to them - and quite a bit of detail when you look at them up close.
I just think there is too much overdone detail, some of the letterforms are forced, many are illegible and that makes these logos ineffective (By the way, are ALL of these logos done only in black?). Design is communication, right? What do these communicate?
"Satan loves hard to read gothic hand lettering"?
But, I'll admit defeat. I don't understand this subculture, and I'm not the target audience. It's interesting art, but I still don't consider it good design.
On Nov.22.2008 at 03:40 PM
Josh’s comment is:
I feel like being a metal band is one of the silliest things you can do these days. And the irony is most are fairly nice guys, whose parents still don't approve of their lifestyle, but whatever...it's their life.
With that whole being nice thing, many are usually smart. Is it a matter of fitting in with the crowd and marketing that your metal band has to have an identity like every other? Either they are really smart or really dumb.
Typographically, they are interesting, but I definitely have a partial hatred of hardcore, death metal, grindcore whatever sub-sub genres there are these days.
The Deftones are probably not a great comparison to many of these bands, but at least artistically with their album covers, they didn't follow some silly, trite and unimaginative trend like this.
Mastodan could kick all these bands asses anyways.
On Nov.23.2008 at 12:28 AM
Torbjørn Vik Lunde’s comment is:
As much as I appriciate death and black metal I think 90% of the bands are simply copying the other (original and innovative) 10%. The logos seem to match. But then again, isn't that the case with any genre?
The best logo in this style is actually Darkthrone. Their logo is very very hard to read, and really does look like something sketched in alegra class, and they haven't even fixed it later on. But it fits the punkish/garage-ish nature of their music. Anything else would be as silly as Sex Pistols having a cover with a perfectly kerned and ordered Helvetica.
It's all about the context.
"My problem with them is the craftsmanship. The crudeness of them feels like each logo was knocked out in about 5 minutes on the back of a notebook during algebra class."
I think in some cases that might be true! I've more than often seen metal bands getting someone who's good at it re-making the original logo, with the exact same idea just with better craftmanship once they can afford it. Not all of them are probably able to execute their idea at first.
A lot of so called post-black metal bands(bands that are not really black metal, but have obvious roots in them, and often are of a progressive nature) uses serif typefaces for their logotypes. I've seen this in Ihsahn, Peccatum and Arcturus.
On Nov.24.2008 at 02:32 AM
Marcello’s comment is:
I think Derek nailed it -- these are logos for a counter-culture. Part of their purpose is to annoy the design bourgeoisie. Judging by the comments on this page, I'd say that they serve that purpose quite well!
On Nov.24.2008 at 12:32 PM
JBIII’s comment is:
Speaking of Dungeons & Dragons. My parents stopped by this weekend and dropped off a trunk they found when they were cleaning out their attic.
All of my original hard cover D&D Monster Manuals and guides were in there. A gold mine of pen and ink drawings of creatures, logos and weapons, I must have traced and tried to replicate those pages hundreds of times when I was younger.
Aghh, the memories.
On Nov.25.2008 at 08:04 AM
Anonymous’s comment is:
Wow. Way to be original. (sarcasm coated hostility)
:P
I guess if you're all gonna sound the same, might as well dress the same, play the same, brand the same, etc etc.
Cheers to the Death Metal bands that actually stand out!!!
On Nov.25.2008 at 12:27 PM
Pamela L.’s comment is:
er...sorry, I didn't fill out the fields above.
On Nov.25.2008 at 12:28 PM
oprion’s comment is:
I was bored :)
Paul’s comment is:
Hahaha. They ARE all for the same band right?
On Nov.25.2008 at 06:00 PM
christina’s comment is:
very detailed, and, in their own way, some are really lovely imagery. They could be made legible with a little time and skill in their creation, but because they aren't legible, don't they fail utterly to communicate?
I don't know, I eat tofu and listen to the Decemberists. What do I know about Death metal bands?
On Nov.26.2008 at 09:42 AM
chino’s comment is:
These are some great ambigrams. Reminds me a lot of John Langon's work --- the guy who did all those cool illustrations in Dan Brown's Angels and Demons.
Germán’s comment is:
@Pamela L: If you don't know ANYTHING about metal music (or any kind of music), please shut up. Thanks :)
On Nov.26.2008 at 02:07 PM
PP’s comment is:
Pretty cool this post! The best was to read the comments made here and in the interview!
On Nov.27.2008 at 01:03 AM
Char’s comment is:
AHHHHHHHH
MY EYES ARE BURNING!!!
Nolen’s comment is:
I like a lot of metal, some black metal, but this guy's logos seem a little overly detailed for printing in white crusty ink on a black longsleeve t-shirt too well (though the Emperor one is classic), which is ultimately their most important end-use.
Some classics of the crust/grind/metal/blackmetal genres:
Dark Throne
Abruptum (this band rules, btw)
Bathtubshitter (Japanese grind):
Also, I love that people are giving design critiques on something where the artist/audience/musicians probably loathe things like "design critiques" and the people who give them.
Mark’s comment is:
they all look the same, messy stylized and unreadable.
Kind of like their music.
Tim’s comment is:
It's so disappointing to see some of you disparaging an entire genre of music when you've probably only had extremely limited exposure to it. "It's all the same," or "It's just noise." The same things have been said about every new genre or counter-cultural musical expression for decades. Stravinsky's music inspired angry riots, and people hated Elvis and the Beatles, remember? A lot of metal is crap, just like a lot of most things are crap. Most rock is garbage and there's tons of awful jazz out there. As for the logo designs, certainly they're not to everyone's taste, but they're doing what they are supposed to do: alienating and intimidating outsiders and squares.
On Dec.23.2008 at 12:11 PM
Adam Garcia’s comment is:
I don't like the music at all (which I'm sure many of you don't), and I find the black-metal culture as a whole sociologically and anthropologically fascinating. The logos above represent them in every way, aesthetically, ethically, etc. I would say these logos, in that sense, make them MORE successful than many of the logos I've seen on this site. They are SUPPOSED to be ugliness-incarnate. It would be interesting seeing a section in Umberto Eco's On Ugliness on contemporary Black-Metal.
Anonymous’s comment is:
I encourage you all to look at the detailed view of these logos. I had similar reactions to many on this page at first, mainly I thought that they all looked the same. However, viewing them larger allowed me to see the subtleties in each logo and I realized that they're all quite unique from each other. These are not meant to be glanced at in tiny thumbnail form! I suspect that the death metal genre of music is quite similar in this way...
On Dec.27.2008 at 01:22 PM
wata’s comment is:
If you line up logos from any market, they will blend together like this. As much as we try to make logos unique to the client, we draw on references to make the logo quickly understandable. The problem people seem to have with these is that the logos aren't quickly understandable. As designers, we've been told too many times how important it is for a logo to be quickly understandable. These logos aren't simple-stupid enough for most of you.
On Jan.02.2009 at 12:27 AM
M’s comment is:
It probably doesn't matter whether they are readable, as long as fans recognize the design or silouette. Many bands have symbols without words on their merchandising. Having the name there doesn't matter because the fan wearing the shirt knows where it's from.
On Jan.18.2009 at 09:29 PM
Anonymous’s comment is:
they are very strinking, certainly appropriate to the misanthropic sentiment and love of wilderness (or wildness). this one is a very nice extension of the twisting spikes motif into natural roots/extensions:
were i to meet the artist i would recommend looking at arabic geometry and fractals for a more structured, sparse expression.
On Jun.18.2009 at 09:09 PM
Anonymous’s comment is:
i was referring to this image:
Anonymous’s comment is:
Su On Nov.22.2008 at 07:35 AM
i agree with you absolutely, i am also quite surprised at the easy dismissal of a whole subculture's manner of graphic expression. surely as designers we must be capable of functioning in extremes of identity, from the anonymous to the highly personal, from the clear to the inscrutable.
while i would like to see a mies van der rohe of black metal graphics, i also accept that the whole idea of this genre is claustrophobia and a baroque sensibility. perhaps black metal is incompatible with sparseness?
On Jun.18.2009 at 09:27 PM
