BY Brand New

Music to my Eyes

Philadelphia Orchestra Logo, Before and After

Guest Editorial by Kosal Sen

For a world-class organization, the Philadelphia Orchestra had an extremely banal logo. It wasn’t too disappointing, given that the core of their visual presence — event posters, outdoor advertising, banners and such — used this uninspired, “safe” method of art direction. The old logo uses Trajan with the crossbars of the As dropped, probably a nod to musicians familiar with the marcato articulation symbol. This nice little idea would’ve made an okay logotype, but someone thought it was a good idea to improve it with the ever-popular swoosh. But behold, this swoosh had reason, representing the arched roof of the orchestra’s home, the Kimmel Center. Then again, it’s still a swoosh.

With a new orchestral season approaching, a free concert in the works, a new ticket subscription program, partnerships with new sponsors, and the departure of decorated musical director Christoph Eschenbach, the Philadelphia Orchestra doesn’t seem to have any problem with exposure. It just indicates prime opportunity for a rebranding. And overall, I am pleased.

The new logo sports classic Bodoni in red and gray, with a bold and stylishly customized P. The bowl of the P flourishes into a spiral, ending with a ball terminal that imitates the scroll found on many stringed instruments. A great example of how image and type can be fused to form a strong, legible, graphic mark. The formality of the didone typeface in the logo and in headlines is nicely complemented by dynamic photography, as seen on a billboard I spotted on I-95, and their new website. It’s crisp, delightful, and it’s refreshing.

My one complaint is on the scalability of the logo as a whole. The fine detail in Bodoni’s extreme contrasts is lost due to such a huge contrast in scale between the text itself and the mark. I wish the difference wasn’t so much. “Philadelphia Orchestra” is a long phrase, and maybe eliminating the space between them was an attempt to sacrifice space (no pun intended) for increased scale, but it’s not enough. On that billboard I saw, the P was clear, but the words were virtually invisible. Also, I can’t help but be reminded of Pentagram’s logo for the Detroit Symphony Orchestra. Does it matter, though? It’s not likely that one will be confused for the other.

Aside from these two complaints, the rebranding feels like it’ll be a success. The timing is great, the logo is improved, and the new art direction, from what I have seen so far, is unstaid. Solid job, whoever did this!

Kosal Sen is a designer at Sides Media Studio where spends his most of his time on advertising and branding for interactive and traditional media. He’s also an unshamed perpetuator of typographic humor.

DATE: Sep.26.2008CATEGORY: Culture 59 COMMENTS

Comments › Jump to Most Recent

Matt Gavenda’s comment is:

I agree the logo and name do seem too varied in it's size and proportion. And I can definitely imagine that being an issue moving forward. It does almost mirror the DSO. I feel as if the "The" didn't have to be on the other side of the logo. Seems orphaned over there. For what it is, I agree, it is better but not great. But the old logo was not so hot so the bar wasn't that high.

On Sep.26.2008 at 09:38 AM

jRod’s comment is:

it looks to me that they are trying to push the stylized P as the most recognizable feature. I wonder if there will be any ad pieces with the P on its own in the near future?

On Sep.26.2008 at 10:01 AM

Remy Overkempe’s comment is:

Thanks for reminding me how much I love the Detroit Symphony Orchestra logo. This one though; okay, I guess. The words "Philadelphia" and "Orchestra" seem a little bit awkward though, as if it was a typo. I agree that it's a long name, but can't change that, so they should've worked around that problem. Eliminating the space is not the solution.

On Sep.26.2008 at 10:03 AM

DrewDraws2’s comment is:

As a resident of Philly and a fan of the Ochrestra, I can't help but feel that this change is not really an improvement. Yes, the old logo had a Kimmel Center swoosh, but it did represent something that was recognizable, and, more importantly to me, readable.

This new logo looks like they chose an off-the-shelf design and stuck the words "The Philadelphia Orchestra" on top. It has no connection to the city, the orchestra itself, or even music, really. The red and gray type makes the already small type fade away into oblivion and makes the whole lock-up visually weak - the exact opposite of what you'd hope to see from an organization with a world-class reputation for making incredible music.

Was the old logo great? No, but it looked strong, modern and elegant, like the orchestra itself. New one not so much.

On Sep.26.2008 at 10:08 AM

Matthew Brett’s comment is:

I hate to pick on the logo because it is a step up. But it seems very inelegant, particularly when compared to the Detroit Symphony logo or that of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra

On Sep.26.2008 at 10:15 AM

Peter Whitley’s comment is:

Handsome. Victorian. Not quite modern. Works for me.

I suspect the scalability may not remain an issue before long. The P is distinctive and ownable. (I think black and red marks have been in the public domain for quite a while now, unfortunately.)

I'd like to see some other applications. How many different programs does the Philadelphia Orchestra run in a year? Is there a kid's program or educational events or whatever? How will these programs, if they exist, mesh with that mark?

On Sep.26.2008 at 10:29 AM

mingshi’s comment is:

Again, nice but could have been better...

The colour hierarchy is just messy.

On Sep.26.2008 at 10:30 AM

Andrew J Klein’s comment is:

I don't get it

On Sep.26.2008 at 10:40 AM

JonSel’s comment is:

Wait. Do I see whales in there?

On Sep.26.2008 at 10:52 AM

Kyle Jacobson’s comment is:

I think there’s more to the swoosh than an architectural reference. I see a fermata, the musical symbol that instructs musicians to hold a note (or rest) for indefinitely longer than it’s typical value. Typically, underneath the arch of a fermata is a dot. In the old logo, they put the wordmark there instead.

On Sep.26.2008 at 11:18 AM

Mark Barilla’s comment is:

I second Kyle Jacobson's comment. I immediately understood the old logo to be a Fermata, and although I have never been to Philly, also thought, "it looks almost like a bandshell," which isn't so far off from the architectural allusion.

So ultimately, aside from the Trajan, I like the old logo. It has meaning and relevance where the new logo does not.

The new logo is okay, and I do love the stylized P. However, it does look more expected, and in my opinion, the Bodoni is somewhat overused. Paired with the awkward size imbalance, I think much more could have been done to strengthen the identity overall.

On Sep.26.2008 at 11:39 AM

max’s comment is:

The swoosh makes the P look like a lower case r.

On Sep.26.2008 at 11:40 AM

Supressed Pirate’s comment is:

Looks like a stylized "r"

On Sep.26.2008 at 11:48 AM

Dale’s comment is:

I like the "P"

it's the overall composition that sort of makes my skin itch.

On Sep.26.2008 at 11:50 AM

Michael Gottschick’s comment is:

The old logo was nice but could have been everybodys logo. It was only distinguishable when getting close enough to really read it. The new logo with its prominent P, though, is recognizable from far beyond where you could read the words. Isn't that what recognizability and identity is all about? This logo is alive, modern, and makes you curious.

On Sep.26.2008 at 11:55 AM

Kim Siever’s comment is:

I like how the negative space in the P makes an O, and how the curly part of the P nods to musical symbols like the fermata, treble clef, and bass clef.

On Sep.26.2008 at 12:01 PM

Steve ’s comment is:

Echoing Kim's comment, I think the P evokes a treble clef symbol more than a scroll.

On Sep.26.2008 at 12:08 PM

Kurt Koepfle’s comment is:

The new Philadelphia Orchestra identity was designed by Paula Scher. It officially launches next week. Paula also designed the Detroit Symphony Orchestra logo.

On Sep.26.2008 at 12:10 PM

Paul Lloyd Johnson’s comment is:

yuck

On Sep.26.2008 at 01:02 PM

kirk’s comment is:

the P looks like a lowercase r to me.

On Sep.26.2008 at 01:11 PM

Kosal Sen’s comment is:

If this were really a lowercase r, everyone would say it looks like a p.

On Sep.26.2008 at 01:13 PM

Miles’s comment is:

I love the P but the rest of it doesn't work very well.

On Sep.26.2008 at 01:26 PM

LadyN’s comment is:

"If this were really a lowercase r, everyone would say it looks like a p."

LMAO.

I like it. The type needs work but the "P" is nice. I can see it being used alone.

On Sep.26.2008 at 03:33 PM

Glenn Sakamoto’s comment is:

A vast improvement. I like it.

On Sep.26.2008 at 04:06 PM

exigent’s comment is:

This one makes my skin crawl. Not only is this logo highly unscalable, but it is meciocre at best in it's execution. If the overall goal was to create a symbolic "P", that resembled the fluting at the end of many instruments, they missed the mark.

This doesn't strike the right chord. Failure.

On Sep.26.2008 at 05:04 PM

Kosal Sen’s comment is:

I don't think the overall goal was to make it literally "resemble" anything. That wasn't the point. It's execution suggests a musical connotation. In that case, it's right on.

On Sep.26.2008 at 05:12 PM

Folksy’s comment is:

My one complaint is on the scalability of the logo as a whole. The fine detail in Bodoni's extreme contrasts is lost due to such a huge contrast in scale between the text itself and the mark.

This mark is legible. It's a big, trippy, musical P that looks like a clef symbol. It draws you in like a target, and then delivers the full context in pretty Bodoni.

This lockup is obviously a flexibile relationship that cannot be judged solely from the website; where it is by the way, quite legible. To quantify your complaint, Kosal, it would be nice to see an example of an application where "Bodoni's extreme contrasts" are lost. Where is the aformentioned billboard?

Many design firms, in fact, use Bodoni/Didot fonts with success. All of those are top notch agencies like Landor and Pentagram.

It might be worth following up with the designer of the logo to get more information on this complaint of yours...

On Sep.27.2008 at 12:11 PM

Mongoose’s comment is:

I rather liked the old one: The Kimmel Center/ fermata swoosh to me seems rather clever, though Armin's right: It would have stood out better with just the wordmark.

I'm trying hard to like the new logo, because there's a lot that's right about it: that big bold and beautiful curly-p. But the whole of it just doesn't work for me: the red/gray/black overall seems cluttered. Decidedly the size difference is too large, and the length of 'Philadelphia Orchestra' just pushes too far to the right, beyond the containability of the 'p'.

There's so many good choices with this new logo, but because it does not come together into a cohesive whole, I'm giving it a C. Maybe a C-sharp.

--Mongoose

On Sep.27.2008 at 06:17 PM

Betsy DeGeorge’s comment is:

As my daughter often says, "That's about two drafts from being finished." I like the idea, but it's problematic still. I hate having two P's. That never works for me. Do you pronounce that, P-filadelfia? And the Logo-p does evoke the clef symbol or the tubing of the french horns that greet you when you hit the web site, but it's either too close or not close enough, so you are left wishing it were different.

On Sep.27.2008 at 09:29 PM

DKM’s comment is:

Execution on the website is awful. It not only forgets the effort of the logo to be "classic," but it screws it up making the P look like the Curlz font.

On Sep.27.2008 at 10:08 PM

Justin Hill’s comment is:

Doen't it sort of remind you guys of this:

On Sep.28.2008 at 03:35 AM

dg3’s comment is:

I dig it.

On Sep.28.2008 at 08:11 AM

Diane’s comment is:

I wouldn't mind if this were done by anyone else, but is this really up to something you would expect from Paula Scher?

It's not awful, but it's not exciting either. I think it will look nice on the collateral and I'm glad it's rather large on the website because I think it will fail at smaller sizes. Unless only the decorative 'P' is used.

On Sep.28.2008 at 10:05 AM

Jerry Kuyper’s comment is:

Of the hundreds of posts in the last year that suggest one logo looks like something else I can't think of one that made much sense.

Do both the Time Warner logo and the Philadelphia Orchestra use a spiral? yes

Is the spiral one of the most ancient and universal marks? yes

Think twice, post once.

On Sep.28.2008 at 12:10 PM

What?’s comment is:

The way its shown above is probably as small is it can get. It's a shame to have done that to a perfectly good P. I don't know that it is instantly recognizable, either. The old one may not have been beautiful but it was clearer.

On Sep.28.2008 at 12:36 PM

Anthony’s comment is:

I prefered the old veresion. Don't like the web site either.

On Sep.28.2008 at 04:06 PM

Christian Palino’s comment is:

Jerry Kuyper’s comment is... "Think twice, post once."

genius!

On Sep.28.2008 at 04:29 PM

Char’s comment is:

beautiful

On Sep.28.2008 at 05:13 PM

Alan’s comment is:

This logo is a step backwards. Or...better yet....a step to the left....like.... Detroit. Could it be more of a rip off? The Philadelphia Orchestra is an organization that is...steeped in tradition. The hippest thing they have going for them is...The Kimmel Center. So...I actually understood their logo. When I saw it... it reminded me what a great venue they play in. It makes me want to go. Even if i fall asleep at their performances. They need more dynamism at the baton. Muti was it.

On Sep.28.2008 at 06:40 PM

T-Bone’s comment is:

kinda reminds me of a logo.

also,

"If this were really a lowercase r, everyone would say it looks like a p."

"LMAO."

Gold.

On Sep.28.2008 at 08:25 PM

Ronan’s comment is:

I agree with practically everyone else - two Ps? Why? Scaleability

Also in the larger icon P the inner curve seems slightly wonky just above “hil” in Philadelphia.

However, I'm not so sure it's a step back as has been suggested. Thank god there are no captial As to take the croccbars off of arbitrarily!

On Sep.29.2008 at 04:48 AM

max’s comment is:

I still say this is no way an improvement.

The scroll in the r, er...I mean "P" is just decoration that isn't welcomed in the rest of the feel of it.
The great thing about the older version was the use of the black arc over the logo - taken from a fermata and meaning to hold or sustain. An excellent use of dual meaning, I think.

They should have left well enough alone.

On Sep.29.2008 at 04:46 PM

Fonzie’s comment is:

Justin Hill’s comment is:

Doen't it sort of remind you guys of this:

Ladies and gentlemen, BrandNew has officially jumped the shark.

On Sep.29.2008 at 06:19 PM

Jerry Kuyper’s comment is:

@ Fonzie,

Possibly...

for those as dense as I am:

Jumping the shark is a colloquialism used by U.S. TV critics and fans to denote the point in a TV series at which the characters or plot veer into a ridiculous, out-of-the-ordinary storyline. Shows that have "jumped the shark" are typically deemed to have passed their peak, since they have.

On Sep.30.2008 at 03:06 PM

Fonzie’s comment is:

@ Jerry,

Sorry if I seem to be overly critical, there just seems, recently, to have been a marked increase in the sort of backward comments you highlighted.

Having said that, I don't have a blog of my own that has world class contributors discussing branding – hats off to Armin et al.

If complain about having to screen entries and use my own brain and critical process, I really lump myself in with the very same people making such ridiculous comments.

On Oct.01.2008 at 05:51 PM

Jerry Kuyper’s comment is:

Fonzie,

No problem, I'm with you.

On Oct.01.2008 at 10:19 PM

Stereo Radiation’s comment is:

A little reminiscent of the old Phillies logo?

On Oct.02.2008 at 07:41 AM

KtotheP’s comment is:

@ Jerry
"Think twice, post once."
WIN!

@ Fonzie
...jump the shark..."
WIN!

@ T-bone
"kinda reminds me of a logo."
WIN!

@ Justin Hill
"Doesn't it sort of...?"
No! FAIL!

@ Paul Lloyd Johnson
"Yuck."
Logos aren't for licking! FAIL!

@ Stereo Radiation
"A little reminiscent...?"
Don't fail in Justin's footsteps.
FAIL!

Now if we can just get a Hitler mention, we'll
have completed our little internet arc, which
is not the same as the arc over the old logo.

Fermata, sustain, echo of the building they play
in, all true. However the typography is:
- old-fashioned (why would an orchestra with
one of the most architecturally contemporary
buildings in the city use Trajan? if the life
of the orchestra is to extend past the next
10 years, should it be advertising it's heritage,
or should it say something other than "we
might be carved into a stone column in ancient
Rome?" Removing the crossbars in the "A"
only emphasizes the idea of "classical."
- crowded. In the new logo, red and light gray
in a small proportion aren't the easiest to read,
but the old logo isn't any better.

The decorative "P", with proper use, can become
iconic and used separately in a way the fermata
never would.

The legibility of the typography is problematic
at small sizes, unless the logo is used as
prominently as it is in the web site. Application
makes a difference, and if you don't believe
that, try and read what it says underneath the
"N" next to photolibrary logo at the bottom
of this page.

And why no comments on the web site? Clean,
smart, fast, and super functional. The question
might be if there is enough personality to
support their brand.

On Oct.02.2008 at 01:07 PM

Karl’s comment is:

The new identity is definitely a step above the previous Trajan + Swoosh, but I agree that it feels unfinished in terms of composition and colour palette (why not just go for pure red and black).

I think the P could've been pushed further to reflect the associated musical ornamentation and written/printed notational symbols.

Maybe the designers could've taken a few more cues from the Zurich Chamber Orchestra's Identity which I think is a very beautiful example of a typographic identity.

@T-Bone "kinda reminds me of a logo": O_O

On Oct.03.2008 at 07:31 AM

Jerry Kuyper’s comment is:

Before anyone questions how they got to ZKO, I would like to clarify the name in German is Züricher Kammer Orchester.

On Oct.03.2008 at 11:59 AM

Kosal Sen’s comment is:

You can see Pentagram's showcase of the project (including billboards) here:
http://blog.pentagram.com/2008/10/new-work-the-philadelphia-orch.php

On Oct.03.2008 at 02:00 PM

Von K’s comment is:

I really like the customized p. I also like the red+gray choice--I think it marries the classic-yet unexpectedly modified form of the p with more contemporary colors.

I agree about the contrast in size between the mark and type, though. Are there other lockups? Maybe stacked?

To those saying this p has nothing to do with music, pick up a book of sheet music and look around at the notation. Or just cram it up your f-hole.

On Oct.07.2008 at 01:25 AM

Karl’s comment is:

@Jerry Kuyper: Thanks I didn't think to mention that in my post.

It's interesting to see the id in application…

I like the clean layouts and the P is definitely recognisable from a considerable distance which I'm sure the client loved, they'd also never be able to complain about making the logo bigger ;D

On Oct.07.2008 at 10:19 AM

thalamic’s comment is:

I am glad it looks like a lowercase r to others as well. Something that could have been easily avoided. Observe:

On Oct.22.2008 at 12:08 PM

Ben A’s comment is:

thalamic, I like the change, but I think it'd have to be redrawn to better fit the curves of the p. I recognize your picture was meant to illustrate, though.

I hate to say it, but I don't think the original swoosh was all that bad. As long as they were alluding to music notation, why not include the curve of a fermata?

One more thing. I'm sure the legibility of the small type is kind of problematic, but that can work. Check out the logos at the bottom of this page. I have no idea what the big N is, but I can't say I don't like it visually. And I almost can't help but click on it.

On Nov.01.2008 at 07:18 AM

Ben A’s comment is:

On the other hand, thalamic, your version might look a little too much like the p in Curlz. Not exactly orchestral.

On Nov.01.2008 at 07:21 AM

TheMaster’s comment is:

Paula Scher is ruining all the worlds great music halls!!!!! Ahhhh, somebody stop her!

On Feb.19.2009 at 11:02 PM

Adam thinks he knows’s comment is:

wow. all i have to say is WOW. wtf is up with the P or R whatever? The font and type treatment to "The Philadelphia Orchestra" is good and i like the color scheme but the P is too overpowering and the black just clashes with the the gray and red, this this case.