Something Blue, Something Borrowed, Something Windmillish

I believe this is a first: The Chief Financial Officer of the City of Lubbock, Texas wrote to the Shire of Toodyay, an area in Western Australia and asked for permission to repurpose the Shire’s logo for Lubbock. The Shire of Toodyay agreed to the use and at no charge either. The City of Lubbock then proceeded to lop off a water-like appendage from the icon to now symbolize a windmill — as Lubbock has a strong windmill tradition and is home to the Windmill Museum — and then typed in their name. Above anything else, I am most perplexed by how the CFO of a Texas city is aware of the identity of an area, not even a city, on the other side of the world. But I guess this proves the old adage: Ask, and ye shall receive. “Hi, Apple? This is Armin Vit, Principal of UnderConsideration, I was wondering if I could borrow your logo? No? Okay, thanks.” … “Hi, Nike? This is Armin Vit…”

Thanks to James Bowie at Quipsologies for first tip.

Josh’s comment is:

At least he wrote a nice letter. Western Australia, do you guys speak Australian like they do in Mal-borne?

On Oct.21.2009 at 07:04 AM

Philip’s comment is:

No charge either? I doubt the designer will be happy.

On Oct.21.2009 at 07:11 AM

Chris Thorpe’s comment is:

At least they asked nicely—could’ve just stolen the whole thing and probably gotten away with it. I’d like to think this is the start of a new trend in politeness, but I doubt it.

Interesting to see the two different type treatments, as well. Lubbock’s has a little more room, while Toodyay’s feels slightly too tight for my liking.

Maybe this shared identity is something that an enterprising designer could explore further?

On Oct.21.2009 at 07:19 AM

eli’s comment is:

I have no idea what Lubbock’s budget was for this, but I’d venture a guess that it’d be in the $0 to $100 range. Given that, and the choice between a piece of clip art and a nice note to Australia, seems like they made the right call.

That said, it may have been more successfully windmillish if they’d worked with the colors a little. As it is, it still says: sky, trees, water to me. I’ve been to Lubbock. The trees and water are a stretch.

On Oct.21.2009 at 08:05 AM

Michael’s comment is:

Oh thank God I read the whole article, and sicovered Australia was involved; when I saw the spelling of Toodyay in my RSS reader, I thought I was having a stroke.

On Oct.21.2009 at 08:09 AM

Nicole Beltane’s comment is:

Great to see that Toodyay gave them permission to use it and for free as well. I live near Toodyay its a beautiful little town.

On Oct.21.2009 at 08:23 AM

Chris Raymond’s comment is:

I find myself wondering if this is another reverberation of the culture of crowdsourcing? Like hey, someone in the greater group has done something I like, so I’ll reuse it? Just wondering aloud.

On Oct.21.2009 at 08:29 AM

Nate B’s comment is:

Being a Texan, this is rather disappointing. Even though the city is primarily known for Tech, the smell of manure and flat scenery, at least they could have tried to make a logo that was original.

In any case, kudos to Toodyay for being so generous. It’s a rarity for the borrowing of logos to exist, and for good reasons that we all as designers understand. Next time though, let’s try a bit harder, k?

On Oct.21.2009 at 08:34 AM

Nick M’s comment is:

As a resident of Lubbock, I certainly wish the city had gone for an original design, but there’s no way the politics of the area would allow the spending of real money on design. Honestly, I’d be glad to see anything replace the horrendous jukebox-style logo currently in use: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d4/Lubbock_tx_city_logo.png

On Oct.21.2009 at 09:02 AM

Rob O.’s comment is:

I’m with Nate! I live near Lubbock and fail to see how this fairly generic windmill-ish doodle is representative of that city at all. And like Eli said, trees & water are a real stretch for our dusty West corner of Texas.

However, one thing that never fails to impress visitors to West Texas are the eye-popping sunsets, thanks to the flat landscape that leaves the sky completely unobstructed. Maybe they could’ve used a palette that would’ve been more suggestive of the sweeping vistas and/or fiery sunsets.

On Oct.21.2009 at 09:04 AM

Aaron Scamihorn’s comment is:

of all the logos to say “dang” I wanna get me something like that! honestly? and btw, Toodyay is an AWESOME name for a SHIRE! :)

On Oct.21.2009 at 09:34 AM

felix sockwell’s comment is:

Texas Tech alumni here (never graduated). Have to say this pretty lazy. They (lubbock) didn’t even bother to choose a new typeface. Perhaps an endeavoring designer will come up with a Moviefone® model in which clients will simply ring in and be greeted with “Hello, and welcome to Logobono®. Why don’t you just tell me the logo you’d like to see?” Clean your guns, Red Raiders.

On Oct.21.2009 at 09:35 AM

orangetiki’s comment is:

My feelings on this is whoever in Lubbock was looking around the net, saw this logo and fell in love with it. Knowing that this is “what he/she wanted” knew they had to get some sort of permission to use it or run the risk of having issues/lawsuits in the future.

On Oct.21.2009 at 10:04 AM

John Mindiola III’s comment is:

Weak. I mean, the logo is nice, but wow, just straight appropriating? This isn’t high school! Sad.

On Oct.21.2009 at 10:30 AM

Emily Brackett’s comment is:

Makes me wonder if I need to adjust my contracts to somehow cover this type of transferred usage? Generally, my logo design contracts are a complete transfer of rights to the client, with the exception I can use the work for self-promotional purposes.

Let’s just imagine doing a logo for a client thinking it will be just for them and then they go and give it away (or even sell it) to multiple other groups. ??

On Oct.21.2009 at 11:14 AM

tetra’s comment is:

I agree that they could have changed the colors and typeface up a bit, and even though Toodyay didn’t ask for payment it would have probably been the least Lubbock could do. Just like Philip said, my first thought was “Oh, the designer got screwed over this,” rather than “Oh how notable of everyone involved!”

It’ll be a sad day when we’re reduced down to series of clipart to be utilized for such intentions.

On Oct.21.2009 at 11:17 AM

John McCollum’s comment is:

Why?

I guess no one in Lubbock has original ideas?

This is the ultimate in laziness, and for some reason seems lamer than actually stealing the logo without attribution.

Ugh.

On Oct.21.2009 at 11:23 AM

Rico’s comment is:

This is especially sad when you realize the amount of talent in Texas, specifically in the Dallas area, but I’m sure there’s more than one or two good agencies in Lubbock as well. I think it speaks to the amount of value that some government leaders place on design, ie. very little.

So does this technically count as “offshoring” since the heavy lifting on the design was done overseas?

On Oct.21.2009 at 11:27 AM

Marnie’s comment is:

We recently received an email from a student group somewhere in Texas (I’m in Canada) asking if they could use a logo I’d created for one of our working groups as their organization’s logo because they’d held a contest and someone submitted MY work (downloaded from our web site) and it won. It was a very polite little note, but we still said no. What’s up with Texas?

On Oct.21.2009 at 11:55 AM

Darrel’s comment is:

This only makes sense if the two cities set up some sort of ‘sister city’ program.

Otherwise, this is just pure laziness on the part of Lubbock.

BUT…at least they were polite in asking. Nice of the Aussies to share.

On Oct.21.2009 at 12:01 PM

California state health insurance’s comment is:

Funny how things work. Also how on earth did they find that logo. Searching google for “logos that involve wind that would look good for Texas towns currently owned by nice people”?

On Oct.21.2009 at 12:15 PM

Andrew Klein’s comment is:

It’s hard to explain the value of design to people that think doing something like this is OK.

On Oct.21.2009 at 12:21 PM

Dennis’s comment is:

Marnie, that’s funny. I live in Texas and wind up doing a lot of design work for Canada. Maybe some wires got crossed.

As for the design, well, sure the windmill makes a whole heck of a lot of sense but the colors… I just wouldn’t associate them with the panhandle.

On Oct.21.2009 at 02:21 PM

Olli’s comment is:

Muahaha, great finish! :D

On Oct.21.2009 at 02:46 PM

Von Glitschka’s comment is:

This is the attitude that will fuel iStockPhoto’s logo service.

On Oct.21.2009 at 03:06 PM

Armin’s comment is:

> What’s up with Texas?

Yeah, what the hell, Texas? Oh, right, I’m in Texas now. (Although we all consider Austin to be secessional from the rest of the state).

On Oct.21.2009 at 04:23 PM

Mog’s comment is:

This reflects well on Australia, not so well on Texas…but I guess I should just be happy they asked.

On Oct.21.2009 at 05:22 PM

Trevor Hutchison’s comment is:

I wonder who designed the Toodyay logo. I bet they are not too impressed. Lubbuck could have at least given them $5. (I hear that’s the going rate these days)

On Oct.21.2009 at 08:03 PM

Sean’s comment is:

Just to help out our American cousins a little - Toodyay is pronounced (naturally) Too Jay
cheers
S

On Oct.21.2009 at 08:41 PM

couchideas’s comment is:

Why do I get a bad feeling in my gut and somehow think this is politics?

A City in Texas asking to use a logo from Australia? Huh? Why? Are you saying there is no one in Lubbockistan that can use illustrator and make an abstract windmill? If that is the case you should probably invest in education and the creative industry, because this is downright INSANE!

The only thing this PR stunt shows is major incompetence of the City of Lubbock? (PR because you can read the e-mails)

Did they actually think that people were going to say: ” Wow, no money spend, that’s amazing Mike!”

They could have easily asked a six year old girl which lives in Lubbock to draw a windmill and find some dude to make a vector of it. For free!

Then the PR would revolve around sweetness & cuteness instead of incompetence.
And then people whould say:

“Ah that’s so sweet, cute, creative and free. We should visit that town.”

On Oct.21.2009 at 10:17 PM

Alan’s comment is:

It definitely reminds me of the logo of the utility company I work for.

Ameren

On Oct.21.2009 at 11:21 PM

Ben’s comment is:

Regardless of the design quality (or in this particular case- the lack there of) of the logo. The implication that I find most troubling is the potential copyright infringement.

Unless copyright was assigned to the Shire of Toodyay as part of the design contract then the actual ownership of the logo would remain with the original designer. And that designer might not look favorably on the “gift”.

Opens an interesting can of worms…. More so than the old “people don’t value design” discussion.

On Oct.22.2009 at 02:17 AM

Sean’s comment is:

Since when have CFOs been qualified to make branding /marketing decisions?
Just another concern.

On Oct.22.2009 at 02:30 AM

Nik Daum’s comment is:

Lack of originality aside, I think Lubbock’s version is actually better. This is on a relative scale of course, but the simpler elements and cleaner type help.

On Oct.22.2009 at 06:04 AM

Mike Meister’s comment is:

GOOD GRIEF! As a designer living and working in Lubbock for 20+ years, I’m embarrassed.

For a city that’s supposedly weathering this economic downturn better than most, we can’t even afford to pay a professional designer? I would have been less offended if they’d PAID someone in Austin or Dallas to do something. Some folks asked what’s up with Texas. I ask, what’s up with CFOs? I guess for some, the critical issue of branding has fallen under the same ledger category as toilet paper and staples.

I think this action is a reinforcement of the backwoods image this city has been trying so hard to overcome. We seem to make the national news for two things, Tech football and the lunacy of some of our elected officials (not all of ‘em). I’m afraid this laziness doesn’t help our civic image.

And finally … it seems we have no talented designers here, that the city would have to ‘borrow’ someone else’s design. It’s unfortunate that the official logo of our fine city represents the antithesis of the work ethic and talent found here.

On Oct.22.2009 at 09:17 AM

Michael Carwile’s comment is:

I think it is unfortunate that so many designers place the blame on the CFOs and business managers. These people do not (typically) have any more formal design/branding education than the required Art History class they took in school. I don’t think it’s fair to place the blame on these people. Designers too often have a mentality that they know better than the very people they rely on for their income: the CFOs and business managers. Often I have heard designers make comments (not to the client directly, mind you) about how, “that client was an idiot,” or, “they just don’t get it,” or similar. This attitude does nothing to help the industry as a whole. Whether designers want to admit it or not, they are the responsible party for EDUCATING these decision makers on WHY they need to use a professional, not just throwing a fit because the client doesn’t understand the importance.

That said, as a Lubbock resident working in the industry for 5+ years, this incident doesn’t really surprise me. Local talent and officials are simply not on the same page. It is my belief that much of this stems from the fact that so many Texas Tech graduates/students are actually not from this area (myself included). They have come here from cities like Dallas, Austin, Houston, etc. These people grew up in these areas, and typically have more contacts in these areas than they do in Lubbock. A local agency blog stated that they would have been less offended if this city official had used a company in Austin or Dallas. I disagree, I think this city (as well as Amarillo, Midland, and Abilene) has a large talent pool that is incredibly under-utilized. Any designer that has been to logopond.com or has looked at Vol 4 and Vol 5 of LogoLounge has probably come across the work of Bart O’Dell (http://www.bartodell.com) who I believe used to live in Lubbock and is now in Amarillo. His work is amazing, and he isn’t the only local designer that has that level of skill.

On Oct.22.2009 at 10:52 AM

Dan’s comment is:

LOL, I thought they replaced the logo on the left with the one on the right. “WTF is a Toodyay?!” LMAO

On Oct.22.2009 at 11:38 AM

tetra’s comment is:

I think it is unfortunate that so many designers place the blame on the CFOs and business managers. These people do not (typically) have any more formal design/branding education than the required Art History class they took in school. I don’t think it’s fair to place the blame on these people. Designers too often have a mentality that they know better than the very people they rely on for their income: the CFOs and business managers. Often I have heard designers make comments (not to the client directly, mind you) about how, “that client was an idiot,” or, “they just don’t get it,” or similar. This attitude does nothing to help the industry as a whole. Whether designers want to admit it or not, they are the responsible party for EDUCATING these decision makers on WHY they need to use a professional, not just throwing a fit because the client doesn’t understand the importance.

Michael I get your point and all, but the fact of the matter is that they probably didn’t even consult with any local (or hell, even state or national firms) to see what they could have paid. It is incredibly hard for anyone in any industry to try to convince someone that they should pay “x” amount when the client just expects things to be handed to them. There are some people who will never, ever understand how critical this is to them because they honestly don’t care and they definitely don’t think that it’s worth their money.

Also the bit of your rant I bolded could be taken out and injected into any job. While I’m sure many of us would love to sit and spend hours and days trying to convince a potential client, most of those types of people aren’t even going to cough up the dough for a consultation fee. Designers often do know better than those hiring them what would work best for them. However, we work for them and if we don’t do exactly what they want then we either end up with an angry customer who refuses to pay or someone who never comes back to us again. If you’re a business owner who doesn’t understand how vital good design is, you’re not a smart business owner. We can only pitch so many things and kiss so much ass.

On Oct.22.2009 at 11:54 AM

couchideas’s comment is:

@ tetra

Well put! I’m tired of explaining to clients that they look like shit and wonder why people have a certain image of them…. :(

And the funny thing is, when they actually listen, afterwards they are stunned with the effect it has on their business… ;)

And they keep coming back with ideas, some of them shit, but I don’t have to explain shit again… :)

On Oct.22.2009 at 12:04 PM

Daniel Pipitone’s comment is:

Yikes, this indeed is a first, at least that I’ve heard of. I am trying to see both sides – I mean, when money is tight, money is tight, but sheesh!

On Oct.22.2009 at 01:07 PM

Steve Smothers’s comment is:

After reading the correspondence between our CFO and the rep from Toodyay, I had to ask myself a couple of questions. One, are we not unique enough that we have to ask to use someone else’s logo to represent the city? We should be employing a visual identity that speaks about the uniqueness that defines us.

And secondly, why is a CFO scouring the web looking for a logo to adapt as our own? Even though it was well-intentioned to save some money, I’m inclined to think that this will cost us in some way. Someone, and as much as I hate to say it even a committee of qualified marketing or creative professionals, should be assigned to this task.

Having been a life-long resident, myself and a handful of other local designers would have done this pro bono. Or at least would have appreciated the opportunity to pitch a new visual direction for the city. In a round-about way this is outsourcing. The least they could have done would be a request for proposal for this project so that this was an open process.

Lastly, does anyone else see a pair of pants flailing in the wind when they look at this? I still believe we fight some stereotypes and this most certainly doesn’t help.

On Oct.22.2009 at 01:14 PM

Morning Toast’s comment is:

I have to admit that I love this story. Here’s some town in Texas asking some place in Australia for some help. Is it an original logo? No, but does Lubbock care? Obviously not. And with exceptions to sites like UC, who is going to visit Lubbock, see the flag outside the courthouse and go, “you know, I think they ripped that logo off. Yes, that’s the same logo that Doodyay uses!”

Originality is defined only by what people know and can reference. And I doubt most people (outside Australia) have even heard of Doodyay, let alone know its logo.

But I echo everyone else when I say, at least they asked. Better to ask and get permission than just steal. But either way the story would have ended up here at UC, I’m sure.

For originality, Lubbock gets an F. But for brains and efficiency, Lubbock gets an A. Okay, maybe just a B+.

On Oct.22.2009 at 04:15 PM

Daniel’s comment is:

As a West Australian designer, this greatly annoys and frustrates me.

On Oct.23.2009 at 02:05 AM

Jaz’s comment is:

I live near Toodyay, I think I will start a petition to get the name of the town changed to Doodyay :D

I really think this is a much nicer method than Lubbock saying, “logo? no budget? Let’s do a competition!!”. Possibly not as great for the industry as them hiring a local Lubbock designer to do the job, but perhaps an ok middle ground.

On Oct.23.2009 at 08:26 AM

Jaz’s comment is:

Also, I would have thought that the Shire of Toodyay would indeed be the legal copyright owners of the logo - I don’t know for sure, but usually the governement will pay for ownership of their logos. So hopefully there is no unhappy designer getting shafted by this.

On Oct.23.2009 at 08:35 AM

Patrick’s comment is:

This is an interesting story, but there’s something about the lubbock logo that really… I don’t know, hurts my eyes. It might be the quality of the graphic that was posted, but “city of” is indistinct and kind of blurry. The whole logo is sort of out-of-focus, and I’m not exaggerating in the slightest when I say it makes me a little nauseous. The toodyay one looks fine, but the lubbock one… i don’t recall ever having a visceral reaction to a logo- it’s weird.

On Oct.23.2009 at 03:03 PM

tetra’s comment is:

Pat, it’s just low-res.

I also hope people who don’t see how big of a problem this is are joking too. If I were from Lubbock and I were a designer I’d start a petition and get everyone else in some sort of creative field to sign it too. This was a perfectly good example of wasting time and resources. It’s akin to my hometown outsourcing non-locals for local artwork depicting local history. We have plenty of people here that are fully capable — why are you paying some over-hyped “artist” to do something someone here could do faster, better and cheaper? Promote your local arts, FFS.

I really think this is a much nicer method than Lubbock saying, “logo? no budget? Let’s do a competition!!”. Negative.

On Oct.23.2009 at 04:48 PM

William ’s comment is:

I’m disappointed that they couldn’t approach a local University to do a student competition or something like that. I would be happy to design the logo of a whole city as pro bono work. It’d be a huge honor.

On Oct.23.2009 at 08:50 PM

Dirk’s comment is:

Truly weird.

On Oct.25.2009 at 01:15 AM

Dirk Fowler’s comment is:

Different Dirk than above. I teach graphic design at Texas Tech and I think, had any designer in Lubbock known this was about to happen, we would have tried to do something about it. There was no fanfare about it locally until another city (Amarillo) ran the story about it. It perhaps reflects poorly on Lubbock as a city, but I think that is unfair as this seems to have been a decision made by just a few people. I teach Symbol design next Spring. Maybe I’ll take it on as a class project and we can deliver all the resulting designs to our city council.

On Oct.25.2009 at 06:22 PM

Ryan’s comment is:

In Australia, I’m pretty sure if you work for the government, automatic copyright is attached to whatever work you do for them. My girlfriend works for the University of Western Australia and I remember hearing this a few times.

On Oct.25.2009 at 07:31 PM

local-lad’s comment is:

I have to say I have been enjoying this debate from a local West Aussie point of view.
Ryan you are correct about the auto assigning of copyright of work done for Australia Government agencies (State or Federal).
But -
Does the Shire of Toodyay have the right to give away State Government assets as they please?
Perhaps we could get the design firm’s angle - I’m pretty sure it was these guys
http://www.creativenature.com.au/default.aspx

On Oct.26.2009 at 04:10 AM

brandsimplicity’s comment is:

Lazy ass $#%@’s…How dare they sell off…sorry give away our beloved Toodyay logo. I would so love to know what the designer thinks of this, I’d be super pissed.

On Oct.27.2009 at 02:59 AM

CMHValex’s comment is:

You know, they could have held a contest at Texas Tech or something. They wouldn’t have to pay money. For a lot of people, especially design students, the simple fact that their design was published as the city’s logo would be enough for them. That one line for their resume.

On Nov.11.2009 at 05:41 AM

Levinson & Axelrod’s comment is:

If they are ok with it, I don’t see a big problem with it. The designer should be pissed he’s not getting any artistic or monetary reward for it. Seeing as everyone knows it came from Australia but not much more than that.

On Nov.11.2009 at 02:31 PM

Sam Connor’s comment is:

This is absolutely awesome.

I work as Editor at the local newspaper in Toodyay (population, about four thousand people, a bunch of sheep and a cat named Schroedinger) and we came across this link by accident. Of course there will be a story in a community newspaper, coming now to a rural Western Australian town near you!

I was speaking to a colleague who told me the local Chamber of Commerce is looking for a logo. Now, we think its only appropriate that the Lubbock Chamber of Commerce logo is appropriated in return. You know, quid pro quo. We’ve even come up with a clever explanation for the four weird looking L shapes on the Publisher-clipart-looking logo.

http://www.lubbockchamber.com/cwt/external/wcpages/

If the Lubbock Chamber of Commerce approves our request (we’d better ask the Toodyay Chamber of Commerce if they like the idea, too, because they currently know nothing), the blurb would run like this;

TOODYAY Chamber of Commerce
Working for business. Believing in Toodyay.
Red - represents the lifeblood of our community, business;
Green - represents our agricultural region and the crops which are grown here
Blue - represents the Avon River, which runs through and sustains the town
Yellow - represents the wealth that business brings to the region

Who said plagiarism couldn’t be creative?

This just made my day!

PS. The logo hasn’t been around for a long time, and we don’t adore it. From a personal perspective, you’re welcome to it!

On Dec.07.2009 at 04:58 PM

r4i firmware’s comment is:

Atleast he wrote a decent letter and then got permission. The logos look good, with significant changes.

On Dec.08.2009 at 03:53 AM

Matthew’s comment is:

This is my home town. Sadly they didn’t ask the local talent. I’m (kinda) upset.

On Apr.12.2010 at 02:42 PM

memory stick’s comment is:

Above anything else, I am most perplexed by how the CFO of a Texas city is aware of the identity of an area, not even a city,on the other side of the world. But I guess this proves the old adage..

On Apr.26.2010 at 07:58 AM

Bao Alverado’s comment is:

My apologies but it easier for me to express in my native language. Zwischen mir und meinem Mann wir mehr MP3-Player über die Jahre als ich zählen kann, ua Sansas, iRivers, iPods (Classic & Touch) besessen haben, die Ibiza Rhapsody, etc. Aber in den letzten Jahren habe ich nach ständiger eine Zeile von Spielern. Warum? Weil ich war glücklich, zu entdecken, wie gut durchdacht und Spaß, die unterschätzt (und weithin verspottete verwenden) Zunes sind.

On May.11.2010 at 11:27 PM