In Brief BY Armin

The Logo Formerly Known as Freshjive

Freshjive goes Logo-less

“Beginning with our spring 2010 line,” states Rick Klotz, founder of the hip-hop streetwear clothing line Freshjive, “we will no longer be using our brand logo or name on any of our product, including all labeling and t shirt designs.” Further, in an exclusive interview for The Hundreds, Rick elaborates that “I’m not the type of person that buys something for the brand name. I’ve also never done a very good job at creating a captivating identity to our own brand logo.” Can a clothing label survive without a logo? I wonder if the level of publicity this no-logo approach generates between now (it’s already on the Huffington Post) will create enough non-brand awareness that the no-logo will become, well, a logo in itself.

Thanks to Jacob Cass for the tip.

DATE: Aug.14.2009CATEGORY: In Brief 73 COMMENTS

Comments › Jump to Most Recent

Cameron Jantzen’s comment is:

Oh it's a logo alright. A rectangle with another white stroke on the inside. It's just positioned to get a good press launch.

Exactly like those "no logo" shoes with white dot on them.

On Aug.14.2009 at 09:09 AM

Jeff S’s comment is:

I do not really enjoy the non-logo idea. It appears to be bland and looks more like someone forgot to place a logo on the rectangle instead of intentionally have nothing there. Having no logo will be difficult because consumers will probably read the "non-logo" as the logo.

On Aug.14.2009 at 09:18 AM

Bill Dawson (XK9)’s comment is:

Hey look! The emperor has a new clothing line.

On Aug.14.2009 at 09:23 AM

Austin’s comment is:

I think that's the point. He still wants people to know that it is FreshJive, he just wants to try something different as far as branding/marketing go (and get some media interest at the same time). Kind of a cool idea, but I wonder how long it will be until they switch back to wordmark or something.

On Aug.14.2009 at 09:29 AM

Gabriele’s comment is:

Totally agree with Cameron :)
That IS a logo, indeed.

On Aug.14.2009 at 09:32 AM

Austin’s comment is:

(My last post deleted part of my comment?)

In reference to: "Having no logo will be difficult because consumers will probably read the "non-logo" as the logo."

(sorry for the double post).

On Aug.14.2009 at 09:34 AM

Jared Ray Scott Ramey’s comment is:

“I’m not the type of person that buys something for the brand name."

Seriously? Then why is that non-logo on the front of the shirt? Just because the black rectangle doesn't have a word mark embedded in it doesn't mean its not a logo. How do i know this? Well, the next time i see someone walking down the street wearing a shirt with a black rectangle on the front, I'll think "FreshJive."

If this guy was serious about it, there would be no label at all. But, he can't do this because people have to be able to identify what the brand is. Hypocrisy.

On Aug.14.2009 at 09:40 AM

Fred H Schlegel’s comment is:

Can you say "PR Stunt"?

On Aug.14.2009 at 09:46 AM

Soda & Candy’s comment is:

What a wanker.

Does the Nike Swoosh not count as a logo if the word Nike doesn't appear with it? The Shell shell? Sure, they're more specific shapes but you get my point.

Total publicity stunt, calculated to appeal to his target market - teenagers who want to be individuals just like everyone else.

On Aug.14.2009 at 09:58 AM

shawnc’s comment is:

I agree with Jacob.

Any mark that differentiates you from the others is a logo - no question. I'd imagine they'll change their minds once their clientele start migrating to other brands/marks, believing FreshJive has left them behind or gone out of business.

It's the same mistake Arnel and Pepsi made with Tropicana - take out the mark, and you basically disappear from consumer's minds.

One thing to keep in mind in the fashion world is that high fashion brands never liked to put their mark on the outside of the actual clothing (that was for the accessories). But today, the brand mark of any "house" is on the pieces themselves (Gucci, Chanel, Coach etc.), but smaller, haute-fashion "houses" don't put their brand on the clothes - they let the clothing speak for itself.

But in youth-focused mass-fashion, logomarks rule. I think they'll be changing their tune within a few months/weeks. Or at least try to create a teiring of the 2 brands - FreshJive for urban youth, Black Rectangle for well-to-do's.

On Aug.14.2009 at 10:00 AM

Highlycurated.com’s comment is:

Pseudo-intellectualism in the fashion industry is one of its many charms :)

On Aug.14.2009 at 10:05 AM

Kristen’s comment is:

I seem to be the odd one out on this forum, because I like it. It's not a logo, but it's a strong (albeit minimal) identity design. I doubt many companies could successfully pull off a stunt like this, but it looks like Freshjive may just do that. It's memorable and I'm sure their target customers will love it. I think it's a great marketing move on their part, even if the non-logo approach is not permanent.

On Aug.14.2009 at 10:05 AM

Antonio’s comment is:

I agree that this is still a logo and a nice one at that. Simple and minimal. Just how I like it. I also think it's brilliant way of marketing it. Eventually the box will be the identity of the brand. Good stuff.

On Aug.14.2009 at 10:19 AM

G*’s comment is:

I appreciate it's minimalism. While I do not love the explanation for it's execution I think that it is an interesting logo nonetheless.

On Aug.14.2009 at 10:26 AM

mykl’s comment is:

Pure PR stunt. If he really is as uncomfortable with logos on his products as he says he is, he'd shy away from press releases and interviews with photos showing (advertising) his new non-logo. Disingenuous at best.

On Aug.14.2009 at 10:37 AM

Toby’s comment is:

@Jeff S: That's exactly the point. :)

On Aug.14.2009 at 10:46 AM

Joel’s comment is:

Bold. If it works, good for him. If he rakes in billions because of this change we better get used to this no logo/logo idea. I'm going to get started on a new line of no logo hexagon shirts. (just in case.)

On Aug.14.2009 at 10:52 AM

Kevin Tucker’s comment is:

That's the most ______ing ridiculous load of _____ I've ever heard. But just to be clear, I'm not commenting about it.

On Aug.14.2009 at 10:52 AM

Maritn Kuplens-Ewart’s comment is:

Interesting evolution of the National Geographic golden box, Time Magazine red box, etc. I particularly like the twist of having the trademark framed by the creative output instead of framing the creative output, and thus effectivelly standing on its own while still branding it. Clever.

On Aug.14.2009 at 11:02 AM

Robbie B’s comment is:

I believe that Rick is missing the point of not having his clothing line branded. Sure, I can see why he doesn't want a logo on the outside of the clothing, but whats the problem with having a logo on the inside? How do you expect customers to shop your brand? Will there be hang-tags on the items, or in-store signage, or will these clothes only be sold at Freshjive-branded stores? Obviously the black box with the white inline serves this function on some level. But if he were to make a completely honest attempt to disregard branding the label would have to be white with black text including only the size and washing instructions. And besides, if this move is really all about individualism in fashion and not buying into brand names then why have a clothing line at all? Why shouldn't every piece he creates be completely unique?

On Aug.14.2009 at 11:16 AM

Jonathan’s comment is:

I'm kind of interested to see how this develops... Just a shape as a logo, has anyone ever done that? I know companies use shapes that eventually break off and form their own icon (nike, target, etc.) but has anyone just come right out and said, "that's it, we are the rectangle!"

On Aug.14.2009 at 11:17 AM

Ismael’s comment is:

“Can a clothing label survive without a logo?”

Sure. American Apparel's been doing it for years. Their logo (if you can call it that) doesn't show up on any of their clothing, and yet they're one of the hippest clothing brands out there.

On Aug.14.2009 at 11:18 AM

Benga’s comment is:

This is actually a clever idea, that sets freshjive apart from the pools of competitor who are constantly fight for recognition with the so called brand identity. Now are days, the fashion industry is populated with lack of creativity and or uniqueness. That's why the fashion field is polluted with bunch of big names brand who focus more on their logo, sticking it on any plan shirt and expect people to pay ridiculous amounts of money for them, while little or no attention is payed to the product (idea) in itself.

I feel like this logoless( no-logo) is a very ingenious, because it allows the designer to focus entirely on the clothing ideas, instead of what is cool and or what everyone else is wearing.

Benga creative

On Aug.14.2009 at 11:27 AM

Alex’s comment is:

That will be the day when designers begin presenting the "no-design" option and getting compensated for it.

On Aug.14.2009 at 11:28 AM

JM’s comment is:

Have we learnt nothing from the 'Prince > Symbol > back to Prince' fiasco?

I think I smell a rat!

On Aug.14.2009 at 11:29 AM

mykl’s comment is:

"The clothing formerly known as Freshjive"?

Neither ingenious nor original, I find Rick Klotz's assertion that this move is kinda "punk" of him (see linked interview) merely pretentious.

I do however like black rectangles so kudos to him for that.

On Aug.14.2009 at 11:36 AM

mykl’s comment is:

JM: LOL, I posted too slowly re. Prince...

On Aug.14.2009 at 11:37 AM

Jem’s comment is:

"Rick Klotz, the owner and designer for Freshjive states disillusionment with the world of branding and marketing and a desire to return to the essence of the design practice"

...buy continuing to make, brand, market and sell clothes.

I mean WTF! Nothing has changed, i'm surprised the 'Huffington Post' bought that bullshit.

On Aug.14.2009 at 11:43 AM

AAaron’s comment is:

"Ismael’s comment is:
“Can a clothing label survive without a logo?”
Sure. American Apparel's been doing it for years. Their logo (if you can call it that) doesn't show up on any of their clothing, and yet they're one of the hippest clothing brands out there."

Ismael you are wrong.

http://www.mopboutique.com/images/american_apparel_label.jpg

On Aug.14.2009 at 12:01 PM

yael’s comment is:

That's branding at its best! Way to go! 'Black-box-with-white-border is the stand-in for my killed logo'. That's still a logo if not in the traditional sense. I love it.

Ditto on Benga's comment...

On Aug.14.2009 at 12:04 PM

mongoose’s comment is:

Not too shabby. Yes, the framing space becomes a logo in these instances. Marketing it as a 'non-logo' isn't quite accurate, but it's reasonably genuine, given the interview. Is it a marketing ploy? Sure, dude wants to sell T-shirts and shoes. But it's clever enough he might do well for the 2-3 years before he returns to some mild logo usage again.

On Aug.14.2009 at 12:34 PM

steve’s comment is:

i dig it.

its a somewhat gimmicky way to maintain relevance but,
this is a brand that passed it prime about 15 years
ago. i still have fond memories of buying their t-shirts
circa 91-93 at placid planet in boston.

On Aug.14.2009 at 12:48 PM

A little brand named Muji’s comment is:

Meh, it's been done.

Muji first did this in 1980.

From Wikipedia:

No-Brand brand
Muji's "no-brand" strategy means that the little money is spent on advertisement or classical marketing and Muji's success is attributed to the word of mouth, a simple shopping experience and the anti-brand movement. Muji's no-brand strategy also means its products are attractive to customers who prefer unbranded products for purely aesthetic reasons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muji

On Aug.14.2009 at 12:59 PM

damon’s comment is:

but, how will people know I'm better than them if they can't readily recognize the expensive street wear brand I'm flaunting?

On Aug.14.2009 at 01:08 PM

Jacob’s comment is:

"I would like a single plum, floating in perfume, served in a man's hat."

That's the first thing that came to mind.

On Aug.14.2009 at 01:13 PM

ScottyM’s comment is:

PR Stunt.

The black box is a logo.

BTW, it's not like the logo has to be on the outside of the shirt, plenty of clothiers do that. It's not having any name on the merchandise at all, which will be the death of this brand unless, A: the black box is really the icon (replacing FreshJive), or B) his clothing line has some unique redeeming quality (i.e., great fit, unique cuts, unique fabric, etc).

http://www.cordarounds.com does it without a logo on the outside, save for a red square tab on their clothes ... but the catch is the cords are "horizontal" rather than "vertical." That's they're thing, and they do it well. No need for a logo on the outside of the merchandise.

Stunt, FreshJive. I only hope mass media sees it for what it is ... a non-story.

On Aug.14.2009 at 01:30 PM

Su’s comment is:

Agreed with several people above: my reaction's basically, "...so the new logo's a white rectangle on black background?"

The argument doesn't even attempt to hold up, given one of the images presented slaps the logo right on the front of one of the shirts. If they hadn't done that, I'd be more inclined to play along.

Nau has done this better. There really are no visible logos on any of their clothing. Beyond that, you'll find a single discrete use on the tag inside, and that's it.

On Aug.14.2009 at 02:00 PM

diz’s comment is:

notice how he says they won't be using their "brand logo". That means they will have a logo or some other identifying mark, which they have in the pictures. Only a fool would fall for that :D

On Aug.14.2009 at 02:15 PM

marnie’s comment is:

Well it's a clever way to get around a very stale a moniker. But as others have said, it's still branding.

On Aug.14.2009 at 02:55 PM

Mark’s comment is:

Wow all I can say I admire the gutsiness of them, hope it works out.

On Aug.14.2009 at 03:04 PM

Andrew Klein’s comment is:

mind, blown...

On Aug.14.2009 at 03:14 PM

Dejan’s comment is:

of course its a logo, it communicates something about the brand.

I like it, its different than all the other logo's.

With a good identity it could work, especially in today's age
where their message could relate to plenty of people. There's
lots of going on in the world that this "logo" can have its
say on, and I do think it has a lot of potential for branding.

So, as they may have a "non-logo" "logo" i do think that it
does have merit.

Its different.

On Aug.14.2009 at 03:38 PM

adam’s comment is:

wow, i am seriously surprised at the comments here. really, whats the deal? are you all just jealous you dont have a client who will let you do something like this? of course the black square/white line is the new logo/brand/mark/etc. i like how over half the comments point this out like no one else realizes it.

and i really dont understand all of the comments like "well, if you are really tired of the branding game, then maybe you shouldnt even sell clothes anymore or just make single, one-offs." uhhhhh . . . this guy is a clothing designer, thats what he does. thats how he makes his living and apparently he enjoys it.

maybe he should have made it into a shiny, bubbly, web 2.0 logo. oh wait, then he would still get ripped apart.

On Aug.14.2009 at 03:55 PM

555’s comment is:

I think it's a bold move but I like it. It *is* still a logo imo, it'd just a little less cheeky than most of their competition.

I've always liked the cut of FJ shirts and I'll more than likely buy one of these when they're available.

I wonder if they'll change the colour of the rectangle depending on the colour of the garment?

Whether it'll last more than a year or so, I just don't know.

On Aug.14.2009 at 05:32 PM

Jeremy’s comment is:

I like this.
I hate logos on clothes, it makes me feel like a sucker, a walking billboard for a company I know nothing about.

Truth is, the no-logo approach is nothing new, everyone from Muji to McDonalds have played with it. But so what, it's definitely not the norm, and that is refreshing.

This is a massive change in philosophy for Freshjive, do a quick image search and you will see their previous clothing line was all about incorporating various iterations of their name on their clothing, in a not so subtle way. This alone makes me a little suspicious of Rick Klotz's stated reason for a re-brand, maybe he has seen the light!

(I think the shop signage will look cool)

On Aug.14.2009 at 06:29 PM

olumi_day’s comment is:

That black box has some potential to rise to the level of target's red bullseye if handled correctly. But then again, this is supposedly an anti-branding/anti-marketing endeavor which means any effort to push the box would have to be done with extreme subtlety. I'm interested in seeing how this turns out.

On Aug.14.2009 at 06:54 PM

Rick Klotz’s comment is:

Wow, interesting comments. Got you talking. Won't spend too much time on here commenting. But this is a permanent move for my company. No turning back.

Can you imagine the limitations on the one had, and the freedoms on the other that this offers? Something to think about.

Imagine you had a multi million dollar company, and you dropped the NAME off all the product in one swoop, not really being totally sure of the consequences.

It's kind of like a little experiment. Let's see what happens . . .

Any serious inquiries welcome: rick freshjive net

On Aug.14.2009 at 10:32 PM

Gareth Coxon - Dot Design’s comment is:

No Logo = Logo, the switched on will know that this is freshjive and it will probably connect with a generation who are sick of advertising and branding even though this is both of those things!

On Aug.15.2009 at 04:37 AM

frenchy’s comment is:

That's another dope idea from Klotz.
That will make a good promotion for his brand for sure.
Now it's all bout quality, originalty if not it's over for him I guess.

What about the name of his website? shop? etc..hahaha

©french heraldry "bombardier jacket" 2009

On Aug.15.2009 at 12:41 PM

Alec’s comment is:

"...I’ve also never done a very good job at creating a captivating identity to our own brand logo.”

If a clothing designer can do well in branding or identity design base on marketing decisions, why the world need other types of professionals?

Those rectangular tags are a group of identity system, did Freshjive making noise to announce their new logo in a weird marketing approach?

Muji's products have no logo symbol or trademark with a real good reason, saving consumers' money and saving our world in produce less wastes, not the company's effort.

On Aug.15.2009 at 01:41 PM

Ray’s comment is:

Pretentious to the maximus!

On Aug.16.2009 at 01:52 AM

Jeff S’s comment is:

I get that the idea is that the non-logo = logo, but is there a better solution than placing a blank rectangle on the clothing. Can it be done through the use of specific colors and a unique style? That will eliminate any logo and create a general clothing brand. Freshjive's logo reminds me of a uniform patch that is missing "my name is..."

On Aug.16.2009 at 03:03 PM

JohnD’s comment is:

"This label left intentionally blank."

On Aug.16.2009 at 10:53 PM

Joe’s comment is:

Not branding it is having no labels, period. You've branded it sir.

On Aug.17.2009 at 10:20 AM

bugsy’s comment is:

I dig it.

On Aug.17.2009 at 12:46 PM

Josh’s comment is:

I love it. The people stating that "it is a logo" and Rick's initiative. Listen....you can unbrand yourself, but yes I think you have to use nothing to totally do this.

I've seen cars for years being unbranded. Loads of the kids that like street racing unbrand their VW, Honda etc as I would hypothesize, to free their creativity. It's not that they don't like brands, follow and are loyal to brands, but something about wanting their car to be unique only truly come about by de-branding it.

In a fashion culture overwrought with branding, perhaps its the merits of the product that should stand out. When I go shopping, it's not about brand its about look and appeal. Most of us operate in that raw sense as well. Nobody sensible really wants to buy a shirt branded up by American Eagle, but we often lack choices, so decidedly succumb to "branding" ourselves not out of desire, but because of lack of availability.

After seeing this article a week ago, I checked out the Freshjive wares and was impressed by the ideas that drove the design of the clothing. A true sign painter making graphic tees, shirts modeled off of the ones old blues men wore. That is inspirational and unique product making right there and really doesn't need a brand to sell a great idea.

Lastly, I don't think he said he was abandoning marketing. He's not bat shit crazy, but I think he's out to prove a point that many have sort of a natural adverse reaction to here. You can sell products without a proper brand mark.

On Aug.17.2009 at 02:58 PM

Paul’s comment is:

So how do I visit the website for this line of clothing?

emptywhiterectangle.com?

On Aug.17.2009 at 05:49 PM

Nate’s comment is:

Ridiculous publicity stunt. If they really wanted rebel against the clothing industry, they should try paying their factory workers a livable wage.

On Aug.18.2009 at 02:30 AM

orangetiki’s comment is:

I say it IS a logo. I understand what FreshJive wants to do. They want to change it up a little and let the clothes speak for themselves rather then the logo I get that. It's a very artistic move that is at it's core inspiring, but the question is will it be readable by the consumer? Will the consumer think the logo is missing? Will they wonder why they are paying so much for something that doesn't have a brand logo on it? This is a classic case of Art for Art's sake. This is geared toward us and not the masses. Specialized, simplistic, and sophisticated. Question is will people not in the know connect the dots, and does FreshJive care?

On Aug.18.2009 at 10:56 AM

LaurenB’s comment is:

The "no-logo" aesthetic definitely has a clean, minimalist look to it. Perhaps this no-name gambit will work but the brand will have to survive on word-of-mouth marketing.

If I saw this clothing in a retail store and didn't know the story behind it I most likely would leave the nameless product on the rack. And although I don't purchase clothes for the name brand, its assuring to know a certain quality exists behind branded clothing (even if that is a marketing ploy too).

On Aug.18.2009 at 12:15 PM

Haro!’s comment is:

I like the look of the "non-logo". I hate the rationale. Just seems like a means of getting attention. I mean when I think "no-logo" clothing I think about the clothes sold at Muji, where they really have no logo or any real way to tell what brand they are other than the fact that you went into the store to buy it.

On Aug.18.2009 at 07:15 PM

David’s comment is:

Maison Martin Margiela has been doing this for ages, but then only way better.

They use a white label, stitched with four white threads through the garment, while this becomes branding aswell, its done way more elegant.
The mainline has a blank white label, and the sublines all have an identical white label, but then with numbers on it.

more info on wikipedia and his site
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Margiela#Life_and_work
http://www.maisonmartinmargiela.com/

I think as a brand MMM is a good example of how this idea can be done.

On Aug.19.2009 at 01:57 AM

g-sppud’s comment is:

So as long as you don't have any type, it's not a logo? Take that Apple!

On Aug.19.2009 at 09:31 AM

adwrighty’s comment is:

By being first, he'll get the PR, the cache of being unique and anti-conformist, and probably sell well in the first month.

However, I think this is a stunt that will last the season at most. There are still a bunch of followers out there that like the fresh jive brand name and choose to have it emblazoned on their clothes. Where will they go?

On Aug.19.2009 at 10:58 PM

Jon’s comment is:

Interesting how there's so much hate for this PR effort from Klotz. Seriously, why hate when one should recognize his foresight into separating the Freshjive branding into a new direction. No logo or not, we as designers recognize that.

This is a marketing effort and it's one step in the right direction for his company to revive some new interest into his target audience who's constantly looking for that touch of "individuality", even though it's kind of like saying "you're unique, just like everyone else".

On Aug.20.2009 at 05:12 AM

Glenn Sakamoto’s comment is:

" "

On Aug.20.2009 at 05:55 PM

Ismael’s comment is:

Aaron: Are you serious? I thought that when I said “doesn't appear on their clothing” people would interpret it as “can't be seen while you're wearing their clothing.” Was I wrong to assume that?

On Aug.22.2009 at 04:21 AM

Matthew Kelly’s comment is:

The Japanese company Uniqlo has been avoiding the use of visible logos on its clothing for some time as well. I like their stuff and part of that is down to the fact that I'm not a walking billboard for them every time I wear something.
Freshjive has a logo, it just hasn't got any words on it.

On Aug.24.2009 at 09:59 AM

Chuck Spidell’s comment is:

The Anti-Brand.

On Aug.25.2009 at 12:10 PM

Dan’s comment is:

If they have no logo, then they should have no label.

On Sep.03.2009 at 08:24 PM

The Jive Man’s comment is:

I have to say that I thought Freshjive was a very well built brand, and now that they are replacing it with this rectangle doesn't seem like a good idea.

On Sep.13.2009 at 08:23 AM

Unbelievable!!!!!!!!’s comment is:

I was under the impression that freshjive (all lower case with the h and j as one letter) was an underground brand. I cannot believe so many people, many I doubt own a freshjive product, have a comment about this story. If anything this story is just making the brand gain a few more buyers. Logo or no logo, freshjive will always be a brand that will stand out from the rest thanks to Rick Klotz. Rick Klotz makes you think...about freshjive.