I'm not really sure how much large firms directly benefit from a web presence in terms of getting work, as most clients are obtained and retained through presentations, marketing and the efforts of the new business folks in the firm.

For a small firm, it can directly help get clients by simply having a nice, simple portfolio online. Makes it a lot easier to snag the odd client in casual social run-ins by mentioning the site or handing them a card saying 'check out the work we've done' type of pitch.

All types of firms can benefit from having an online client/project management system, though, again, this seems to be a bit more useful with the smaller firms (who simply have less people on both sides as decision makers).

As for how to approach it, just make it reflect your firm's personality, and, if you truly want it to be a marketing tool, skip all the self indulgent bells and whistles. (unless you are trying to sell self indulgent bells and whistles) ;o)

As for my site? Umm...yea...I REALLY need to get that server back up and running...

armin-our new ting should be up in the next week or two.

imagainary forces site is tat. i think it's time for everyone to put the airbrushes away.

i agree with graham. that whole vectorized, perspectival swoopy style gives me a migraine these days.

on the plus side, looking forward to the new tomato.

Graham -

Why did you guys change the site to announce a new one would be coming soon? As opposed to simply just putting up the new one when it was ready?

Is it to indicate change is going to happen?

I'm interested - not trying to be rude.

>Why did you guys change the site to announce a new one would be coming soon? As opposed to simply just putting up the new one when it was ready?

That's common practice. Specially when a web site is very dated with old work and an old look. It's a way of saying "yeah, we've slacking off for years now and are working on something new." Plus, it builds excitement and expectation.

It's like those building "wrappers" they put around the lobby so you can't see the mess they are making inside. They could just not put anything and let you see how they work, but how appealing is that? This way, by saying "coming soon" in a nice way you have a tah-dah! effect when the new one is ready.

Or maybe it's nothing like that.

A while ago I went to about 100 different design firms' websites ... a very interesting little tour. What struck me most was how 95% of them are in Flash. As designers, Flash is a no-brainer, but given that our target is usually business people, and often CEOs who are notorious for using laptops with outdated everything, the Flash decision surprised me.

I agree with Darrel that the site should project your personality. My former company's site was experimental, useful and sometimes funny; it was very much US ... and people who went there got a good introduction to the personality of the company. We got a lot of positive feedback about the site, but I'm sure we also scared a lot of people away.

But...

I'm out on my own now and in the process of building my own website (and why? for the reasons mentioned above: as a directed marketing tool) so I'm currently struggling with some of these issues. My site will actually be much more straight-up than I am. Because I'm now small and unknown, I need to appear more "professional" up front. Still with personality, but not obscure or nutty. I think when you're famous, or as-good-as, you can afford to lay on the schtick a bit more, unless of course you specialize in making funny kooky work for other people, in which case lay it on now.

Also, if you create work on the web, you can actually get unsolicited business from people who find you on the web. It's quite common and not all the clients that come this way are as bad as the ones who, say, found you in the Yellow Pages.

... except that sometimes "coming soon" sits there for months or ....

Also, I meant to say, Portfolio Portfolio Portfolio. It's the first thing people click on and more often than not, it's the only thing. If you make it right the first time, make it easy to navigate and easy to update, then this should always be the focus of a design firms' site, and it blows me away how many companies offer all sorts of groovy stuff but don't get this basic element right. If you keep your portfolio up to date you don't have to have major angst about revamping and redesigning your entire site.

And yeah, I have a question. There may not be an answer, but what if someone, with lots of dollars wants to find a well-known firm, and they have no previous experience. If you go to google.com you are not going to find the "best designers" out there by searching for "Graphic Design Firms" you arent necessarily going to get one of the top guns listed above.

How do big firms get themselves out there....just word of mouth?

I dont have that problem here, we are so small(not a design firm, but software development), know we are not going to get many hits (except internally) and we keep it simple and straightforward..though we do re-design often...I guess to "keep up with the times".

I am not allowed to use any multi-media on our site though, they want to keep the information simple, straightforward and Section 508 compliant (I know, you can in Flash) they just want it to be corporate and available and easy to use.

damien

errrr . . . good question. i suppose it does seem a bit pointless. maybe to build up to a fever pitch of anticipation? actually maybe it means people keep checking back until either the new site is up or they get sick of waiting; either way the site gets some action. i actually quite like it as it is-the little films on there are quite groovy.

Has anybody tried this approach (scroll down to Typical Design Engagements)? Putting your pricing right out there for all to see?

While some of our business has been the result of clients contacting us 'cold' from our website, our site is mostly there to express our outlook, present some of our projects (for clients & not), and send people to our other online business and personal projects.

Being a two-person company makes it easier to mix personal identity and skillset in onw place.

We tend to slowly tweak our site rather than do too many outright redesigns but the urge is always there.

Armin -- That 37Signals approach is interesting and I've seen others displaying something of a rate card on their sites. But we always find it impossible to throw out stock numbers as every job has such a wide array of variables that affect cost.

Armin-

I have to agree with Davin re: the pricing up front. To me it screams "bush league". You can't bid on a job without knowing what's going to go into it, and only showing your bottom-of-the-barrel prices seems like shooting yourself in the foot. There's something very cheeseball about it.

I like the use of CSS, though. But that's me... I like CSS. I've had enough with the Flash and the motion graphics and the slickness. I'm kind of over it. I'd be suprised if their potential customers have the same feelings.

-R

I'm in the process of leading a redesign of our firm's site right now -- so I've had some seat time with this discussion already.

Websites for creative agencies are not as similar as they may look. There are many factors that can affect the form and function of their website, including size, business, and client base, brands, etc.

Boutique studios (ten or less people) attract clients that seek work first, capabilities and clients second. A site for a smaller shop is expected to be unconventional, direct, and content shallow. Potential clients look for credibility most of all -- not an education in services or process. And potential clients look for lists of past experiences, like a resume -- again, so they can be sure the firm is legit.

Larger firms have far different needs. A company like Landor produces hundreds of projects a quarter. It becomes a matter of scope of services for a specific sector of clients and industries. The website then becomes a strong business tool rather than a portfolio or a client directory.

The three phases of a website that usually correlates with the maturity and growth of a design firm are:

1. A portfolio website -- this is a sure sign of a startup or a small-on-purpose studio. Eyecandy and personality to pull in work, pure and simple.

2. A website with a vast service list of capabilities and technology and acronyms like DM emails, and .Net this, and SQL that, and blah, blah, blah. This signifies when a company is bringing in work, but not building a large number of well-known brands. They're too large to compete creatively with small boutiques, yet too small to run w/ the big boys. So they sell services and process.

3. Lastly, when a firm becomes notable and large enough, their website becomes a place to share stories of the value they bring to big-brand clients. Very little specific work or services are listed, and only a brief client list of only the most well-known, top-tier biggies are chosen. "Big picture stuff happens here" is their story. Welcome to badassdesign.com

...and one last phase, is when a firm becomes so large that they no longer care, and their site goes back to becoming a tiny 2 page contact sheet. Like Bruce Mau's or Imaginary Forces' old site.

I don't think what 37Signals is doing is cheesy - but simple, straightforward and not complicating the process like so many others do. They offer a particular approach and deliver specific types of designs that allow them to keep the scope of work simple and void of the pitfalls that other, wider project scopes might contain. They don't offer a wide range of design styles or look and feel concepts. They focus on solving usability and interface problems.

I like their approach - it seems to work for them and cuts out all the bullshit that so many other firms employ.

On another note, I like how Coudal Partners represents itself online. With very little project work to show for itself.

Tan - thats a brilliant overview.

It seems to correlate with the numbers as the grow from one person, to under ten, under 50, 100 + and then uber-firm.

I definitely saw it with something like Studio Archetype who eventually became Sapient. But then Pentagram has always had an odd presence. One that is definitely in line with how people perceive the firm (from not having been an employee or client) but now really simple, sort of effortless.

I personally like how "Our Process" type of pages creeps in to a small firm's portfolio site when it begins to grow up. Its sort of like saying "Okay - I'm telling you how I want to work from now on". It should just be called - this is how I work.

I totally agree that 37Signals isn't bushleague or cheesy. They might just have the type of service offering that they can quantify somewhat more easily. I can't see doing so myself but more power to them I guess.

I also think that they have a clear focus on usability and information architecture and their site reflects that -- although I think they are overly verbose in how they present themselves.

I love how Coudal operates their site. It's a place people go to because there's a wealth of stuff to look at, read, or link to but it also acts as a bit of a proof of concept for them.

Davin, you're right. If they can quantify how long doing whateverthehell they do will take and can put out a rate card based on that, then I'll take my opinion back.

But to me it comes off kind of like this this or this. My feeling is, if you say you can paint any house for $200, I'd want to know how you know that. Are you going to waste my time? Up front pricing works for restaurants and dry cleaners, not for involved services.

It's late, I'm tired and rambling.

-R

What 37Signals is doing is turning their services into a commodity-based product. In doing so, they unencumber the process but also turn themselves into little more than a service bureau.

Nothing fundamentally wrong with that, if that's how your company makes money best. Web widgets at your service.

But to me, selling design as a commodity devalues the client-designer relationship and ultimately, the worth of the resulting product. And how do you put a price tag on that?

What 37Signals is doing is turning their services into a commodity-based product.

I don't agree (not again...) for a number of reasons.

The prices they give are simply a starting point, with a broad range of time involved, then they have simply categorised typical projects, but not said that is all that they've engaged in.

It's simple, clear and perhaps more of a narrow offering than you or I might work on Tan - but perhaps not much different from an illustrator saying that typically a magazine cover illustration would cost X and something else would cost something else.

It doesn't leave any room for something outside of that scope of services - and they do seem dangerously close to selling a commodity-based product, but my interpretation is that they're trying to do something else.

We've talked about this long and hard at Pentagram before arriving at our "straightforward" website. Some of the things we've come to agree on, more or less:

1

Our website is a first and foremost business development tool.

2

As a business development tool, it is inherently limited. We assume that potential clients make a list of possible designers and use the web to check their basic information.

3

We don't get jobs through our website. The website is just supposed to move things to the next stage, ultimately a personal interview. That's where you can actually tell stories that are tailored explicitly to the case at hand. So no elaborate case histories on the website; that's something you do better in person, when you know who you're talking to.

3

Since all 19 of the partners are designers, the emphasis is on design work. As far as I can tell, we're one of the few large design firms that are still in Tan's stage one "portfolio website" ("the sure sign of a startup"). I guess with a new partner joining every 18 months on average, we're kind of a permanent startup.

4

We also decided to not have a "news" section. These things are usually just press releases pretending to be breathless news flashes. The justification is that regularly changing content means that you'll get repeat visits. To be honest, I don't care about repeat visits. I'd be perfectly content if someone visited once, liked what they saw, contacted us, hired us, and never visited the website again. Is that heresy?

5

Finally, we made the controversial (amongst us, at least) decision to not make the design of the site be a demonstration of how clever we are at designing websites. First, as Mariam pointed out above, designers tend to overestimate the technical ability of their potential clients. (I still know lots of CEOs who have an assistant print out all their email.) Second, anything stylistic comes with a built-in freshness date; things get stale fast. Third, with 19 partners, each with their own point of view, simplicity creates common ground. Last, and this is personal, I've always had trouble with the idea of designing for one's self. Our business cards are really straightforward, too. I know some people say if you're a graphic designer you should have an extraordinary business card; I just find it an invitation to chase your own tail. Designers sometimes make their own worst clients!

As for our clients, I've heard that some are disappointed that our website is so "boring." I've also heard from a surprising number of clients who find it refreshing, probably after wading through dozens of slow-loading, low-information flash adventures and endlessly murky photoshopped blurry backgrounds. (I've actually read some advice on this site that would lead me to make ours even simpler.)

> It doesn't leave any room for something outside of that scope of services - and they do seem dangerously close to selling a commodity-based product, but my interpretation is that they're trying to do something else.

I'll meet you halfway Damien. I'm not that bothered by how 37Signals does it. But I think you and I are looking at it with more sophisticated eyes, and can put the information into perspective. But can a green client do the same?

Another way to look at their method: their pricing guide is more of an initial step in their process, rather than a sales trigger. The price menu sorts and qualifies potential clients and becomes a start for their own discovery stage. So if that's the case, then yes, they are trying to do something new.

Bloodbath avoided :-)

> As far as I can tell, we're one of the few large design firms that are still in Tan's stage one "portfolio website" ("the sure sign of a startup"). I guess with a new partner joining every 18 months on average, we're kind of a permanent startup.

Well actually Michael -- you are on stage 4 of my model -- when a firm becomes so large and well-known that it pretty much can do whatever it wants. So if Pentagram wants to just show work, then who's going to argue?

For god's sake, you guys are on your Sixth (!) retrospective book of work. What's next, a TV show?

Everything you said makes sense -- especially about how your website is not intended to bring in work. But the fact is, many smaller and less renowned firms, including mine, do depend on their website to bring in some leads. At least that's the hope. It's not the primary sales tool by any means, but nevertheless, it's a valuable one.

So the rules of engagement for us mere mortals are different.

>I've actually read some advice on this site that would lead me to make ours even simpler.

Oh God, please no!

You will end up with a white page with "Pentagram" set on HTML text and that's it. It would still look damn fine surely.

Tan, I do think that a website is a key part of the business development process, no matter what size firm you've got. The thing to remember is that it's only a single step in that process. I remember reading some basic how-to-get-business advice that said that every step should always be focused on nothing more than the next step: even if the goal is to get a job from a client, the phone call is just about getting an interview, not a job. And so on. A lot of websites seem to try to do things that are better done, in a more tailored way, in a personal presentation.

Now, Armin, I'm excited about your suggestion, and I'll get right on it. Where can I get some of this HTML?

>Now, Armin, I'm excited about your suggestion, and I'll get right on it. Where can I get some of this HTML?

You don't need to go get it anywhere! That's the beauty, it's the default fonts that all computers use to display web content: Times, Arial, Helvetice, Verdana, Georgia and Courier. Sorry, no Bodoni.

This is what I'm envisioning. Really simple. No portfolio, no partner information, no office locations and no contact: just Pentagram.

That will be $15,000 for web consultancy fees, payable to Speak Up Design whithin 30 days. Thank you, come again.

Armin -

Pentagram have to keep that excellent 'because design at its best....' statement. Surely they'd be allowed to keep that in your minimalistic concept for pentagram?

Sort of like this: revision to Armin's vision

> "Our Process" ... It should just be called - this is how I work.

I love that.

Tan - any thoughts on when a stage 1 boutique trys to look like a stage 2 or 3 process driven/ multi-capabilities firm? It seems to me that many small firms get caught in a trap of trying to be what they are not, too quick - albeit because the web allows for pretense and fudging the appearance. In your research, who got it right? wrong?

Micheal - Right On - I've chased my tail so many times - good thing I am a BullDawg.

Thanks for sharing guys. I have got to update/rethink my site, so I really appreciate your energizing comments. This is what seperates SpeakUp from the pack.

Thanks for the nice comments. Our site was originally set up more as a place to experiment with tools and technologies than as a strictly promotional vehicle. It's turned into whatever-it-is-now rather organically. While we frequently show our portfolio to potential clients we've always thought that it's best to show what kind of people we are to work with first. If you're trying to make a good impression on a girl at a bar, you won't get very far talking about all the other girls you've dated. It's gratifying that lots of people visit our site and we've made friends we wouldn't have without it and perhaps that's the most important thing to us.

> Tan - any thoughts on when a stage 1 boutique trys to look like a stage 2 or 3 process driven/ multi-capabilities firm? It seems to me that many small firms get caught in a trap of trying to be what they are not, too quick - albeit because the web allows for pretense and fudging the appearance.

Tom, I'm afraid i don't have any more answers than anyone else. My overview was just my personal observations, not a guide by any means.

But it seems to me that the key to content lies in your statement above -- that firms need to be true to what they are, and how they work. All firms talk about process to some degree. All firms talk about clients and work that they're proud of. Just be aware of how much weight you're placing on the type of information that's being presented.

Some obvious things -- just common sense advice.

-- Don't overpromise something you can't handle or deliver.

-- Don't limit yourself, but don't be so vague that no one will care. Pentagram can be vague -- the rest of us can't.

-- Don't design something just for the sake of it. Resist all temptations.

-- Research, research, research your realistic competitors to understand what you're up against.

-- Ask some of your loyal clients how they perceive you and why and how they work best with you. Try to tailor the site to continue working for you.

-- It's a business tool.

-- Don't believe your own marketing hoopla when redesigning. Be honest about your own work, your capabilities, and your position in the marketplace. It's the best place to start.

One last thing about process. No one reads them because it doesn't really matter in most cases. A client will work the way they work -- regardless of the firm. So unless you have something truly unique about your creative process -- don't expect people to be impressed by how you do things. The only firm I know that truly has a unique process in presentation, etc. is Sandstrom design in Portland. And their website reflects exactly how they are to work with -- goofy and extremely creative 24/7.

I have a good friend who's a genius writer. He's written branding and website copy for just about every major design firm in the Pacific NW. His attitude for copy is simple, "When writing copy, I leave out the parts that people will skip." It's a Yogi Berra kind of truism -- but it applies to so many things that we do, including designing our own websites.

Ok, who accidentally turned off the switch in NYC, Toronto, and Detroit?

damn...can't even imagine.

Tan - any thoughts on when a stage 1 boutique trys to look like a stage 2 or 3 process driven/ multi-capabilities firm? It seems to me that many small firms get caught in a trap of trying to be what they are not, too quick - albeit because the web allows for pretense and fudging the appearance.

Can I speak to this even though I'm not Tan? I could pretend to be - but I can't spell that well, so I'd get caught out pretty quick.

There are a number of firms for which mentioning their process serves them, as Tan said - firms like IDEO get hired sometimes because of their process.

I think the addition of an explanation of 'the way I want to work' is a good thing, if it can show additional personality and your proven path to success.

Small firms are generally incredibly ambitious with the desire to become larger, more established entities as quickly as possible. So appearing to be slightly larger, better and even more capable than is actually the truth is seen simply as part of aggressive growth.

I've seen web sites promote themselves having twice as many staff or being international when those things weren't true.

So the trap is desperation and over-eagerness to be something that the small firm are not and perhaps a strong uncomfortable feeling in being as small as they are. And it is always at the expense of the real reason clients should want to work with that particular firm.

Like Tan says: Don't believe your own marketing hoopla when redesigning. Be honest about your own work, your capabilities, and your position in the marketplace. It's the best place to start. People too often forget that showing one or two examples of your best work, your best attribute and your phone number is better than plastering a site with copy plagiarized (sp?) from Sapient's web site and pretending to be a multi-national + disciplined, double the sized firm that you are.

As much crap as there is out there - it is always refreshing to come across sites like 24/7, notclosed.com, cuban council or Coudal's which are different, strong and confident about what they do and why they do it. I remember back in the day when looking at Studio Archetype's web site was fascinating and exciting.

What's that site that has the color of the day - for a design firm?

Ok, who accidentally turned off the switch in NYC, Toronto, and Detroit?

Some probably kid hacked into a mainframe from a telephone booth with his Ally Sheedy looking girlfriend trying to play tic tac toe and they shut down power to some eight North American cities.

I dunno - who did it? Armin?

> What's that site that has the color of the day - for a design firm?

That's the Sandstrom that I'd mentioned. The copy is just brilliant. Makes me chuckle every time.

The color of the month is a don't miss.

I concur w/ Damien. Don't plagiarize. It leads to the dark side.

And are you kidding Damien? Me, a good speller? Please.

>I dunno - who did it? Armin?

What the hell? I dunno, I just spent over an hour in the stupid subway. I hate Cubs games, they slow down the whole damn city.

Though that power outage, that downright sucks.

And I had nothing to do with it. Maybe it's some sort of giant branding consultancy technique — to distract everybody while they redesign the IBM logo or something. David W?

>If you're trying to make a good impression on a girl at a bar, you won't get very far talking about all the other girls you've dated.

You don't? I'm glad I'm married, 'cause I sucked at that dating thing.

Here is a cool article on Jim's approach to the blog as company site. (Thanks Arturo, I finally used it)

I also think what you guys (coudal) are doing along with 37Signals is pretty interesting. Will be nice to see if some businesses catch the blog fever.

>Sort of like this: revision to Armin's vision

Damien, get your own clients!