I think that, at least at the pro level, team logo design is a rather niche field with a handful of specialized firms doing most of the work.

I'm not a huge sports fan, but I have a soft spot for the Wild logo (even though I hate the name):

A bit of a tangent, but I recently learned that the U of Oregon uses Disney's Donald Duck as their logo/mascot. Since they have to pay Disney royalties, they decided to hire Nike last year to design them a new one -- only to have the new mascot booed off the field on its first appearance. Odd.

I was having a conversation about this with some designers a month ago. It is a conversation that I am totally unqualified to partake in, being completely sports-phobic and virtually unaware of sports-related things going on around me. However, I am not so unaware as to have not noticed the theme of our discussion, that being the replacement of the older "graphic" (typographic, iconic, 2-colour-based) sports logos with "aggressive cartoons." This has been going on for years and I don't really know where it comes from, but I've always hated it. (Though I'm well aware that to the average sports fan my opinion would rate as less than zero.)

Further, these designer-fellows claimed that there was a rising sentiment of preference for the simpler, old-style logos amongst their non-designer, rabid, sports-fan friends. This may be creeping nostalgia, or it may be that whatever directive that guides the breeding of vicious, slathering, air clawing bears, alligators, dinosaurs, marmots, chipmunks and voles is, in fact, misguided.

One can only hope.

Personally, I can't imagine a less desirable client than the owner of a sports team, but I am admittedly and unashamedly prejudiced.

Here's a couple of good links for sports logos:

This one looks pretty comprehensive to me (crazy fanatics).

This one covers mostly minor leagues and more obscure things (crazier fanatics).

Darrel: I could care less about sports, but I'd boo that thing off, too. It's like some weird figure-skating vampire duck supervillain of debatable sexuality. What the hell were they thinking?

The cartoonification of sports logos seems to be a further extension of the wave of PC revisions that started in the 90s or so, when there were still schools using tomahawks or redskins, etc, and someone decided it was derogatory, even though several schools could easily prove they were doing it as tribute. But whatever. The world gets a little more Disney every day, and the Children Are Safer, right?

How is calling someone 'redskin' a tribute? Anyone remember a art piece a few years ago that depicted the Indian's logo/mascot rendered side-by-side with blackface makeup?

I'm a huge sports fan, and as a designer I'm always looking at teams new logos and uniforms and critiquing them. Personally, I'd love to have the oportunity to design the identity for a sports franchise.

In my opinion, some of the most unoriginal thinking as far as logo design in sports exists in the NBA. Look at how many teams use a basketball as part of or even the main element of their logos.

I've also noticed in recent years the movement back to vintage/retro logos by some franchises such as the NY Giants (NFL), NY Jets (NFL), Seattle Supersonics (NBA), NY Islanders (NHL), Pittsburgh Penguins (NHL). Also, while many teams have returned to the past, others have never left their classic look, such as, the Green Bay Packers (NFL), Chicago Bears (NFL), Detroit Red Wings (NHL), Boston Red Sox (MLB), Chicago Cubs (MLB), and many others.

I'm sure I'll comment more later; I've got plenty of opinions regarding sports and design.

I for one would LOVE to take on a project like this. - and I would love the challenge. Things need to remain "hip" and up-to-date - just like the uniforms, the styles of the logo and branding of the teams need to stay comtemporary.

I am not sure that they desire only one branding style either - just at christmas time I was shopping for a baseball cap for Notre Dame (for the boyfriend) - and I noticed that they all looked much different. Some used older serifed typefaces, some bold and new, with the cartoony characters - and all for the same team.

On a side note - designing for television sports graphics, be it the "score holder" - or the funny motion graphics that surround the players mugshots as they are introduced, was/is always one of the jobs i've dreamed of. Not sure why - maybe because I am a sports fan - but I think it would be great fun!

I'm a huge baseball fan, mid-level football and not-at-all basketball fan. I'm always excited to see new redesigns in the hope that some sort of design sensibility will return to the sports field. I'm so tired of the angry animals so prevalent.

I think Marian is correct when she talks of creeping nostalgia. These days, a major consideration in sports design is merchandise sales. That means that any redesign must pay attention to current fashion trends. Since the popular jerseys these days are actually old Astros and White Sox uniforms from the 70s, it makes sense that the trend in new uniforms will reflect that. The new Rockets uniform and identity bridge this nicely —�it's nostalgic only in the simplicity of the design while being completely contemporary in form.

> So why don't more designers take on these projects?

Like Darrel said, sports branding is a very tight niche. There are a few firms that specialize in it and they pretty much do everything. One of them is SME Power Branding which I mentioned in a thread a year ago.

That I know, only one "typical design firm" has ever done a professional sports team's identity: Hornall Anderson for the Seattle Supersonics. There are probably others, but this is the one I can think of.

It is a tight niche. A very tight one. I'm glad you pointed out the HADW redesign of the Sonics, Armin. I remember that in 2001, but could not find the documentation on their site. The Sonics, like other teams, are using this "throwback" look that's full of nostalgic sweetness. And by nostalgic I mean a recollection or longing for times that were better and simpler. The look and feel of these throwback logos evoke that, especially compared to the bombastic Disney/Hanna Barbara identities from the 90s.

At Pentagram, we did the brand standards for the New York Jets a few years ago and have been consulting with them since. They are a great client, and great to work with. The mandate was to preserve the original (early sixties) logo but to come up with a bunch of other graphic elements that could be used in concert with it.

One of these is the Jets Bold typeface we commissioned from Jonathan Hoefler and Tobias Frere-Jones mentioned by Jason above, which extrapolated an alphabet from the four letters in the original logo.

I happen to like the original logo, which has a real "commercial art" vernacular quality to it that to me seems neither nostalgic or Disney-esque, so figuring out ways to make it work in new and different ways has been a pleasure. I also think the team is great and look forward to a great season next year with a healthy Chad Pennington.

I too like the original Jets' logo, and am glad to see some of it preserved in the redesign. Thanks for the link, Michael. I was wondering who did their visual program. The Giants have also gone the way of revival with the "NY" overtaking the "Giants" logotype. In an imaginary scenario, how would a studio reconcile doing work for both of those teams?

The new Houston Texans logo bucks the cartoon trend in favor of a iconic, but modern, logo:

The typography used for the team (not shown) is rather faddish, however, and I'd suspect will need an update within a decade.

I think it would be tough because they both play their home games at Giants Stadium at the Meadowlands in New Jersey, so the Jets have to "redecorate" it when they're in town. This is probably best done by someone who can act single-mindedly on their behalf.

There is the larger question of design firms that work for multiple clients who compete in the same industry. This seems to be pretty common, and encouraged in fact by clients who value "industry experience" over independent thinking (or as they probably view it, inexperience). SME, for instance, seems to have worked for every team in the world; this is probably very reassuring to their potential clients, and something they have no trouble reconciling.

The St. Louis Blues hockey team got a small firm here in town to develop a whole look for them that they use on advertising, tickets, web sites, signage, and pretty much anything you can imagine--why more teams can't be like them and the Jets I do not know, but such is life. Professional sports teams typically aren't that progressive in the ways designers would like them to be, because so many of the organizations are good ol' boys clubs and the like. For instance, I did a lot of work for the St. Louis Cardinals recently, ads, tickets, signage, outdoor, brochures, that they figured the fans would like, but they didn't like it themselves so...they killed it.

This is a great topic Jason, but for me, the real cause for concern is uniforms, especially football uniforms. Anybody have the misfortune of watching the Miami Dolphins play in ORANGE shirts and pants with white helmets? Yegh. Or how about them Baltimore Ravens? Sexy. If by "sexy" you mean "wretched" of course.

Maybe its the hipster-in-denial in me, but I've always been drawn to the retro touches in sports, things like the really old Cardinals logo and many of the "classic" baseball team identities. It's interesting because a lot of teams and a lot of fans like the older-style designs, be it for uniforms or gameday scorecards, yet, the media that covers sports, namely ESPN, employ extremely 3-D futuristic looks, both in their broadcast graphics and in the magazine.

If nothing else, you can always expect sports to be visually exciting. Not always the best design, not always terribly refined but...I think they take it pretty seriously. Except the Cardinals. They're just mean :-(.

SME did the new 3rd jersey for the hometown Columbus Blue Jackets and it looks like a trainwreck of marketing ideas. I get the feeling they took the Top 10 features the focus groups liked and shoehorned them all into one sweater. The lace-up collar, the stars on the sleeves, the black body with red and blue trim - it's just too busy. But if the best sellers use black and have lace-up collars, who am I to argue?

The team decided to downplay its cartoony elements, particularly the "Stinger" mascot, to emphasize the historical nature of the Blue Jacket name over the idea that a "Blue Jacket" was a bug of some kind. The team even added a shoulder patch to underline the Civil War connection. I think the new logo is a better representation than the CBJ-ligature-ribbon-with-hockey-stick thing they use as a primary. It's just too bad the Ohio state flag doesn't point the right way on the swooshy "C."

Sports design is probably what got me interested in the design field as a whole and, in turn, what brought me to communities like Speak Up. I have a soft spot in my heart for the ugly beauty of logos/wordmarks and uniforms from twenty-some years ago, particularly for the MISL, a recently resurrected indoor soccer league. For example, the old Philadelphia Fever had a logo that looks like the Special Olympics mark.

I thought the logo and identity for the old Cleveland Force was one of the most striking, beautiful things I'd ever seen. The team was brought back to life and the old logo was allowed to be used for one of the jerseys but a new, electric "modern" identity was used for the other jersey and all the print materials. It's still one of the better ID's in the league (check out the clipart-y Monterrey Fury) but it makes even the worst NBA or NCAA design look like a masterpiece.

If nothing else, you can always expect sports to be visually exciting.

Unless it's a European sports team. Take a gander at some football club logos. While American logos are over the top and clunky, European logos are a touch too restrained. Sure, most have no mascot to play off of, but simply regurgitating the city's coat of arms doesn't cut it, either.

It just occured to me that the recent design issue of the NY Times Magazine contained an article about the redesign of a Japanese baseball team's logo and uniform, describing the back-and-forth between the corporate owners and the design team.

Marian - I agree, the "aggressive cartoon" movement is disappointing. It goes against every design bone in my body, but...

Today, designing a team logo is nothing like designing a corporate logo. Team logos are designed to be redesigned within 3 years so that the franchise can sell a complete new line of hats, shirts, jackets, etc. It's all about the benjamins of merchandising.

Which leads to a couple interesting questions...

Long term, which is a more profitable philosopy for sports marketers - keep a single long term identity, fostering long term loyalty and recognition (New York Yankees) OR short term identities, always changing it up to sell the latest products with new logos (Houston Rockets)?

Flip it around, are there any corporations that could benefit from identity overhauls on a regular basis? What if Nike redesigned or slightly altered the swoosh once every 2 years to sell more product (actually the already do this with sub-branding and product lines).

Bryan - I also credit sports for making me aware of design. At an early age, I could have drawn any major sports team logo from memory, but now I don't think I could even come up with 3 or 4. Sports Identities have been splintered in so many different directions for so many more uses than ever before.

Long term, which is a more profitable philosopy for sports marketers - keep a single long term identity, fostering long term loyalty and recognition

I think it depends on the team and the equity they've built over the years--the Yankees will always have pinstripes and that shade of navy blue, the Cardinals will forever use the two birds on the bat, and the Raiders will never lose the crazy pirate. Those are three teams in the super-high end of sporting legends, that's what people buy and they'll continue to--the value has been established. To change any of it too much (if anything at all) would result in something not unlike the New Coke fiasco, I think.

Teams that don't have the equity probably benefit from the constant redesign--in some instances, they just do it once and hold onto it. Remember the Tampa Buccaneers from the mid-1990s? Gaagh. I don't even know what those colors WERE, words just aren't enough. Then they introduce the deep crimson and pewter scheme, and boom, the team takes off and wins a super bowl a few years later. Obviously it was the team's performance that helped seal fan loyalty, but, I'm sure fans were much more willing to shell out the bucks for caps and jerseys that looked cool and not some reject from John Travolta's Saturday Night Fever wardrobe.

Dang, Todd W beat me to the Texans' logo.

I'm another who was sucked into design partly due to sports teams' logos. There really aren't any NBA logos that I like, though I do like the league's logo. (That silhouette is Jerry West, btw.)

Sarah B -- I always thought it would be great to have that job, too; designing television sport graphics. I think Fox has the best on-screen stuff, now that they've gone away from the Innver Bevel score-box widget, heh. And ABC has this spinny/pseudo-tribal football thing during Monday Night Football (I think it's usually during the post-halftime recap) that I love. I always find it frustrating that there's no way to... bookmark it, keep it for reference.

Last week the L.A. Weekly offered a list of Dopest Throwback Jerseys for 2003 here. It's funny, here [in l.a.] you can see people in thousand dollar shoes / ensembles at the classiest joints in town wearing these bomb retro jerseys. I don't know if it's a symptom of the vintage/retro craze (which I hate) or a catalyst... but i think it has, in small part at least, to do with the rejection of the techno/swoosh/3D design that crept into everything in the past half decade. That, and the increasing influence of HIP HOP culture on mainstream america - before the teams started retrograding their logos, rappers were finding 30 year old jerseys on ebay, or thrift stores or whatever, and coupling them with a pair of fresh Nike Air Force Ones - a way of looking unique without being considered bourgeois + having something that you actually had to hunt down, rather than something you could find in any mall /store for a high price.

All of my friends hated the Jets re(tro)-design a few years ago, but now they can't get enough of th e Astros, Nuggets ('Melo!), Bullets (renamed the Wizards because of PC), Sonics, Longhorns... y todo. Personally, i love the bold colours and simple elements of the jerseys of the past.

ps: sara - me too on the tv graphics... i think seeing the different football interfaces on different networks is what spawned my love for computer graphics... and the mid/late ninties FOX gawdy/cyberpunk/matrix over-the-top football interface, my first hate.

Part II

In sports, also, there is tradition that cannot be ignored. the great majority of sports fans probably don't even know what a logo is, but they do know the first time they stepped into the ballpark with their old man 35 years ago, or maybe they remember spending every autumn saturday cheering with their family for the alma mater, hometown team, whatever... and though they may seem graphically ignorant, there would be armageddon if their team was stripped of any orthodox signifier.

On a personal level, i love and hate my school's uniform traditions - we are the only school that does not put names on our jerseys, supposedly as a sign of humility, which is cool... On the other hand, the helmet logo stinks of the worst of goofy 1970s cheese - it actually looks a lot like a profile of the Raiders pirate. I admit that i wanted a trendy, sharp, woodcut-like logo (which were HUGE in the NCAA) when i first came to school, but now i understand the necessity for lastign power, and tradition - particularly its importance to the boosters / benefactors / donors from years past. Which worked differently for the Oregon Ducks, whose recent overhaul of their identity was done by Nike, whose CEO is an OU alumnus.

Michigan, on the other hand, has probably the coolest NCAA uniforms... too bad their going to get all bloody and dirty on thursday afternoon. [GO TROJANS!]

I thought the logo and identity for the old Cleveland Force was one of the most striking, beautiful things I'd ever seen. The team was brought back to life and the old logo was allowed to be used for one of the jerseys but a new, electric "modern" identity was used for the other jersey and all the print materials.

Bryan, I definitely agree with you regarding the Force logo. I still love the original Force logo. The modern version of the logo doesn't compare, but the type for both logos is rather dated.

I have to agree with Todd W., the Texans logos has to be one of the best in sports.

and though they may seem graphically ignorant, there would be armageddon if their team was stripped of any orthodox signifier.

Witness the uproar around the iconic Cleveland Indian logo. It's pretty obvious that ol' Chief Wahoo is an insensitive, racist caricature but the team still hasn't phased him out. The most recent uniform redesign tried to use a "script I" as a placeholder and maybe it will be used on more team materials in the future, but Indian fans get all defensive and touchy when someone suggests changing the name and iconography.

Griff - I definitely believe it's more profitable for sports marketers to create short-term identities. Planned obsolescence, just like in any other industry, keeps the consumer/fan from ever being able to have a complete collection. I think anyone reading this thread will acknowledge how difficult it is to create a simple, lasting logo with mass appeal and how easy it is to create something trendy or faddish with mass appeal. The marketing income has become more and more vital to a team's bottom line and I think pro teams will redesign their identities as often as the league will let them (SEE ALSO: re-proliferation of advertising on MLB's outfield walls, something you would have found only in the minor leagues even 15 years ago).

Perhaps the income from redesigns really does make a difference: My favorite baseball uniform is worn by the Detroit Tigers, who haven't significantly changed their look (on the home jersey, at least) in 100 years. They're also a lousy baseball team.

big steve and .sara...... i think seeing the different football interfaces on different networks is what spawned my love for computer graphics...

I am glad other people look at TV this way, and I couldn't agree more. I tend to annoy those that I love while watching the game. Esp. when I go to a real game, I spend more time looking at the "jumbotron" investigating the "cool graphics" than I do watching the game, well, unless I am at Yankee stadium, can't keep my eyes off the field there. :)

Does anyone know who does the graphics for the jumbotrons, are they sent out, internal, or just templates that come with the system....I think they would be fun to run! :)

I can't say for sure who does the graphics for JumboTrons or anything, but I know there is a particular company that does that kind of thing. I work for the FM home of the Columbus Blue Jackets and they developed an animation for us that plays during games.

I agree with Bryan that the new Columbus Blue Jackets logo is an improvement on the old, despite having the state flag facing the wrong way. I tend to lean toward the classic logos more than trendy ones, but in this case it's an improvement. Another whose original has been much improved upon is thePhoenix Coyotes. They went from a wierd, triangular, hockey-playing coyote to a much better looking howling coyote. Although I'm not a big fan of the typeface, I still like the change.

One of my favorite logos is the Columbus Crew. I like that the logo doesn't depict soccer players but rather construction workers. The colors also give it a "construction zone" feel.

Even though they totally sucked this year, this is and will continue to be one of the most memorable and beloved sports logos of all time:

In reference to the TV thread, quite few years back, I remember seeing an interview with someone from the Miami Dolphins and the background of the set had a repeat pattern of the word "Dolphins" set in yellow Keedy Sans Bold against a blue background. It was just wrong. Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

Jason, as the designer of the team identities of the NFL Houston Texans, NFL Atlanta Falcons, AFL Dallas Desperados, NFL Europe Centurians, etc, I can tell you that I have worked as a solo designer for years, and have always enjoyed the creativity, freedom, and challenge of sports identity.

In the purest sense, sports identity is corporate identity, a creative discipline that I have practiced my whole life. For me the challenge of corporate identity is finding the one solution that will define that company.

But it does feel great to see it on everything too!

My heroes are Paul Rand, Landor, Pentagram, individuals and studios that have created many of today's most recognizeable icons.

As a student, I used to intern for one of my teachers, Tom Nikosey, who taught me lettering. He did many of the cool Super Bowl logos in the 80's, and I was always intrigued by the puzzle solving lettering solutions he developed, which have become the basis of the Super Bowl logos of today.

I too believe that sports identity is a great corporate identity design opportunity, especially considering the usage, applications, and exposure.

one word. Okay, two.

Houston. Rockets.

Okay three...

awful.

Very cool work Mark. I love the type treatment of The Desperados.

Very nice to hear your voice, Mark. I especially like the new Falcons treatment. How do you go about getting clients? Or do they come to you?

In the purest sense, sports identity is corporate identity.

Amen, Mark. Except in the case of the Boston Red Sox, in which instance it's religious iconography.

As a Yankee fan, I'll forgive you for that out of pity.

Don't worry Jason, it's not a very widely practiced religion. I'd say it's closer to voodoo, anyway.

Armin & Jason,

Thanks, I like the design of this site, as well as the sites of your writers.

Sam & Jason

Sports Identity is unique as exhibited in the passion of your above exchange. Fans make it real. Not as many people are as quick to rally around the FedEx or UPS identity.

I didn't fully appreciate the level of that passion until I saw the face paint and home grown interpretations of my identity at the inaugural game of the Texans. It's fun to watch it all happen.

Sports Identity from a designer standpoint is corporate identity.

The prominence and exposure of the identity are what make it seem larger than life.

All of my sports identities have been developed over 6 months to a year, sometimes concurrently with multiple names. A typical identity will have 100-200 explorations and refinements before the final approval.

Sometimes my favorite doesn't make it to the final, but the process and making the client happy is the most important factor.

(Marian, I also prefer the simpler treatments, and often joke with my friends how the holding lines have crept into my work)

I have always gotten my jobs by word of mouth, or through a friend, as is the case with the NFL and NBA.

The hype of some sports identity is wild.

But I just love to draw, paint, photograph, write, and play music. Art is around me every day, thats the real fun.

Bobcats bring design process to the mainstream.

Cool article Tom.

The identity team then worked with the commission to come up with the final 10, which were presented to the representative group of Charlotteans in April.

Sheesh, and I've complained whem clients make us do logos for two different names they like.

I feel as though I am a late arrival, having recently discovered this site. I have been involved in this small corner of the design world for 12 years, and can honestly say that we occupy a very small and often overlooked niche, despite the fact that our work is so ubiquitous. Within our niche are individual club logos, event specific marks that have a finite shelf life, and licensing marks that exist solely in a retail environment.

Designing for sports requires the ability to project both forward and backward, keeping in mind the often long established traditions that are important to our constituency, as well as the need to exist in the contemporary world. Our work needs to succeed across every conceivable platform, and will ultimately be handled by multiple licensees, so it needs to be constructed well.

Anyway, I'm happy to shed some light on our little world. This is a great forum with intelligent and thoughful discussion and I am glad I found it.

Todd, it's never too late here at Speak Up.

I do have a question, if you don't mind. There is obviously a certain style and technique to sports logos: various strokes surrounding the mark, either "old-style" typography or very modern swooshing typography, lots of shines, shadows and dimensionality, very illustrative. Is this overall style constantly expected by clients? I understand that these marks have to stand out in crowded stadiums and rows and rows of merchandise but isn't it sometimes just too much?

Don't get me wrong, I love the style and it's very appropriate, but with each passing season sports logos get more detailed.

Just curious.

Armin-

To the contrary—there is a definite trend toward the "devolving" of sports logos. The complex marks that you are referring to were all the rage from the mid '90s until about two years ago, but I think that we have now settled into a period of simplification.

Much of it was, I think, a natural reaction to advanced technology, both in terms of execution and the manufacturing of licensed goods. Also, each sport can be said to have its own distinct personality as well. Reebok is now the exclusive on-field uniform supplier to both the NFL and NBA, and they have exercised their multi billion-dollar licensing muscle in determining the overall look of things.

Heavy line weights are generally a concession to the need for clean embroidery, believe it or not, as well as a nod to the fact that the ultimate quality of reproduction will vary wildly depending upon usage.

Having said all that, I agree with you that a great deal of the work out there is still overly complex, but there are new and notable exceptions.

Again, I'm happy for the opportunity to chime in.

If you're looking for the challenge of sports logo design (without the headache of a real client's input) offer to design team logos for your fantasy-sports friends.

I did a bunch for people here in the office (i'm an in-house corporate type) - everyone was happy with their logos and it kept me in chocolate and Dr. Pepper for weeks.

Now there is a niche.

I can boast of having the most professionally designed logo in my fantasy baseball league, yet I still finished last in 2003. At least I control the licensing rights to the works.

Hey

I am doinga project on how typrography is used in sport. I ran into this site. If any body would be able to help give me a way to find some more info on this topic it would be gratly apciated.

Thank You!

Here's an interesting brand identity presentation for the Charlotte Bobcats -- the newest NBA expansion team. It covers their entire process from the naming to the identity, and application of the design to the uniforms, court and even the mascot.

I have to say, I thought naming the Bobcats after the team owner (BOB Johnson) was pretty bad, but it's substantially better than the Charlotte Flight or Charlotte Dragons.

Enjoy -

Thanks for the link Dan, very interesting to see the process.

… eventually made my way to Gameplan's web site, the firm who designed the Bobcats logo (which is as exciting as the NBA after Michael Jordan retired — the second time), something caught my attention:

Gameplan CBO Tom first coined the phrase “secondary logo” on his initial identity assignment at the NBA in 1990.

So, OK, I have no facts on who "coined" the term first, but I'm positive it was before 1990 and it had nothing to do with the NBA.

Dan, very nice. Thanks for reviving this topic at the opening of the NBA's new season. I love basketball, and am interested in reading about the Bobcat identity development. Who knows what they could have been if Jordan was invited to be a stakeholder.

While the WUSA did not last very long, I had the opportunity to design the Boston Breakers logo. The logo in my portfolio (click my name above) is, IMHO, a much better one but the client was rather stubborn and wanted a particular look for the wave. I'd still love the opportunity to do more of these though.