e. The Crock of Shit at the Faculty Show: Genius? Insanity?

To me it just seemed a little bit forced. It was obvious that WS was against the school's administration and ways of doing things. So I guess it wasn't necessary to create that whole episode. Also, as far as a pile of shit, well, that's not very inspired. Fraternity dudes can come up with piles of shit, I think WS could have done something a little more 'daring.' I still love Winter anyway.

a. So why the change in typography? Is this a result of the story or an influence on it. It meaning the mood, the interpretation, etc.

You know? even after reading it twice I hadn't noticed (and I call myself a designer) until I lent the book to a friend and she asked about the change. In my opinion and if I want to get metaphorical, it could represent happy's change from a regular person into a designer. I think.

b. Would the story be different in a contemporary setting? How? And why the 50s?

I guess it would have been completely different in any period after that since Graphic Design has become more of a profession as time has gone by. I mean, nobody calls Graphic Design Commercial Art anymore. Right? I think the whole setting lends itself pretty well for poor souls like Hap and Hilms to be exposed for the first time to the wonderful thing that is Graphic Design.

f. So Baby Laveen signifies Hap? How?

Shit! It does? I'm completely clueless about that one.

a. So why the change in typography? Is this a result of the story or an influence on it. It meaning the mood, the interpretation, etc.

I agree with Armin, that it was just Hap becoming more away of design, and say, not using comic sans in word anymore.

b. Would the story be different in a contemporary setting? How? And why the 50s?

I don't think so, maybe it is sad on my part, but the whole thing about the school and the art department, down to the cement building, almost perfectly mirrors my Midwest BFA education. I think the 50's gives a good kitch background for Kidd to write against, exudes innocents I guess.

c. Is the opening lecture by Winter Sorbeck an effective introduction to graphic design? Do you like the explanation of the relationship between it and commercial art?

I pretty much liked everything WS said in that section of the book, I remember laughing to the point of tears at most of it, but I don't specifically remember what he said. I imagine it was something a bit pompous and design righteous and funny, so I'll say I liked it.

d. When does it become apparent that Hap has a little more than admiration for Sorbeck? Did you think Hap had those feelings for Mills? What were some of the clues to his feelings for each. ie: "Jealousy hot and crippling. Jealous of whom, actually?" How did all of that lead to a project fulfilling the requirement of something WS could never forget?

I did not see the relationship between WS and Hap turning out the way it did, I did think he had those feelings for Mills, sort of, there was something a bit to mentorship-ish about that relationship though, I always saw her as several years older than hap.

e. The Crock of Shit at the Faculty Show: Genius? Insanity?

A little predictable in a sense, the scene in the book I guess more than the piece, but it felt a bit forced like Armin sez.

f. So Baby Laveen signifies Hap? How? Did you pick up any clues to this earlier in the book. "This was a mirror I couldn't look into anymore. And I would dispose of it."

No I don't think I ever did, and I still don't think I do.

g. Comments on the ending? Hims final project? How was she the fish?

The beginning of the book was much more grounded, and humorous I though, toward the end I definitely felt like he had a hard time wrapping it up, and this is what we ended with. I guess I just did not have the energy and will to try and analyze the fish thing. Overall though I enjoyed the book and am glad I saw the recommendation here are SU!

h. Comment about something that you read that has made you a better designer.

The Eye Test

Since the day I read about the eye test (2 years ago?), I've been much more attuned to my surroundings. Designers observe things that most people take for granted—but reading that made me much more conscious of taking everything in. By really looking at things it has helped me grow as a designer.

d. When does it become apparent that Hap has a little more than admiration for Sorbeck? Did you think Hap had those feelings for Mills?

Call me lame, but I was shocked. I was totally thinking there was a weird Mister Miyagi/Daniel LaRusso thing happening.

b. Would the story be different in a contemporary setting? How? And why the 50s?

If it was set at a state school nowadays -- as Chip Kidd notes in some interviews -- the kids would have been spewing "f*ck" and "cool" way more in their dialogue. Plus, it would have been weird to see how the Internet and computers in general, not to mention how our society's total pop cultural overload, would have morphed things. Strangely, I could see Winter being stuck teaching a Web design class if it was set at a state school today.

ok. i finished the book. i might be getting ahead of the discussion but the ending sucks and plain weird. if hims is supposedly representing modern art (conceptual art..whatever...) it's still a weird ending.

I LOVED the book, the ending, not so comfortable, but that made it even better in a way. Just finished the book this weekend....Aug. 9

a. I think the change in the typography simply meaning a change in his life, the entrance of WS...it starts with his entrance anyways!

b. skipping for now

c. yeah, it could have been an explanation worthy of a first semester lecture, and many good points were hit on. Making that distinction can be hard, and there is more than one definition for it.

d. I think he found a sort of "connection" with both, it was his first year at school, and he seemed willing to please those he found most interest in.

e. Strange. Smelly. Art.

thinking on the rest...will post later....when I am NOT at work :)

I have not read this book. However, I have an anecdote about it.

Two years ago, I witnessed Mr. Kidd give a lecture on the hard work that went into this title. It was part of the Cheese Monkeys book tour, but also focused on the design of books as a whole. He spent a great deal of time focusing on the book's form and visual flair, and a mediocre amount of energy defining its characters, plot twists, and relevance. As an object, he put a lot of tender loving care into the Cheese Monkeys. The book is crafted with typographic nuances and illustrative details only a designer can appreciate.

Now onto the book. In response to Armin's interlude during the first session (I expected a bigger response for this book discussion.), I have two opinions. First, most designers don't read a whole lot unless it's design. Yes, this is a tired and overstated truism. But this book is about design, so shouldn't more of us be reading it? I can only speculate that the subject matter of Mr. Kidd's book is already familiar to our majority. While listening to Mr. Kidd as he read a passage, I thought, "Okay. I know these people he's talking about. I understand what they're up against. Why would I want to read about them?" As a result, I moved onto my already lofty pile of novels and essays collecting dust. I dismissed Cheese Monkeys.

Now, I am considering getting a hold of this book. I stress considering, and this is where I come to opinion number two: the reviews have been so mixed (from great to miserable) that I am really really wondering if it is worth my time. I don't know who to trust. Critical reviews have labeled this book sophomoric and predictable. This is in contrast to what I've read in the above entries of this second session. The only way I'll find out is for myself. I'm posting this so late in the game, that it may be of no use anyway. Still, I am curious about the second session questions above.

just a note:

quote from identitytheory.com article on chip kidd,

"[Chip Kidd] continues to design book covers for Alfred Knopf and is currently working on the sequel to his novel The Cheese Monkeys..."