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Live from the Cooper-Hewitt

Starting today with a preview for members and, officially, on Friday December 8, Speak Up begins its seven-month run in the halls of the Cooper-Hewitt National Design Museum’s Design Life Now: National Design Triennial 2006. Ever since we were told we would be included we’ve had this idea of having a giant screen streaming all the comments from Speak Up in real time and thanks to programmer extraordinaire, Su, our humble exhibit space features a not-so-giant 17-inch-screen with a super smooth live feed*, which will be active for the remainder of the Triennial — and Speak Up’s existence. We invite you to a) say hello to all of tonight’s attendees from 6:30 to 8:00 (Eastern Standard Time) in this post by leaving comments and b) visit the Cooper-Hewitt if you have the opportunity, because the whole exhibition is magnificent and a wonderful representation of the last three years in the life of design.

* Works best on a Mac through Firefox and Safari (the very first comment might not show until it loops). Probably won’t work on a PC.

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ENTRY DETAILS
ARCHIVE ID 2844 FILED UNDER Speak Up Announcements
PUBLISHED ON Dec.07.2006 BY Bryony & Armin
WITH COMMENTS
Comments
Jeff Gill’s comment is:

1. Nice work, Su!

2. A question of clarification: Speak Up isn't planning to disappear in eleven months is it? It's just that one could read the sentence that way fairly easily.

On Dec.07.2006 at 10:35 AM
Armin’s comment is:

Jeff, nope, not at all. It just means that we will leave the live feed, um, live forever and ever, rather than taking it down after the Triennial is over.

On Dec.07.2006 at 10:44 AM
James Holly’s comment is:

I can't wait to visit the 'Hewitt'! I plan to go soon and I will be sure to check out the 'live' feed! Congrats Guy!

On Dec.07.2006 at 11:10 AM
Pesky’s comment is:

By 6:30 I can be thoroughly drunk and talkative, but then again I'll probably be passed out in the limo with Britney Spears again....

On Dec.07.2006 at 11:23 AM
marian bantjes’s comment is:

You're going for a record comment count aren't you, you bastard?

On Dec.07.2006 at 11:51 AM
Armin’s comment is:

Marian, I wish I were that cunning. Although it would be funny to aim for a record, VH1's 220+ comment post might be hard to beat.

On Dec.07.2006 at 01:06 PM
pnk’s comment is:

This has the potential to be an interesting demonstration of the observer effect.

In fact, I’m seriously tempted to sieze this opportunity and serialize a draft of my first novel, which will be a biting satire of the museum going New York bourgoisie set in a dystopian, yet familiar, near future...

On Dec.07.2006 at 01:07 PM
Darrel’s comment is:

I wish I had something clever to say.

On Dec.07.2006 at 01:31 PM
Tselentis’s comment is:

This is not a page.

On Dec.07.2006 at 02:13 PM
Andrew Twigg’s comment is:

220+ comments ain't nuthin.

On Dec.07.2006 at 03:17 PM
Pesky’s comment is:

Armin Vit the new Aztec God : true or false?

....oh, just joking.....

On Dec.07.2006 at 03:21 PM
Mark Notermann’s comment is:

This is super cool. Now just to take it to the narcissitic (vouyeuristic?) nth degree, how about a webcam near the monitor with a live feed so the commenters can see their audience?

Close the loop!

On Dec.07.2006 at 04:20 PM
Keith McCord’s comment is:

I'm in a museum...a real museum...how cool is that!

And I'm so glad that the Smithsonian wants me re-subscribe to their magazine so badly that they are actually giving away FREE admission to the Cooper-Hewitt...bonus!

On Dec.07.2006 at 04:48 PM
ed’s comment is:

i just might have to take this opportunity for some shameless self promotion then...

i'm a design student in Eastern North Carolina, highly employable anywhere in the nation, looking for oppotunities to expand and grow...

;)

On Dec.07.2006 at 05:27 PM
Armin’s comment is:

The opening is still an hour away... I would suggest saving the best for then.

On Dec.07.2006 at 05:30 PM
Su’s comment is:

Jeff: Danke. But I'm really just a semi-uppity tool user. The real work in there is being done by existing code written by others much better at the scripting than I am. I just arranged the constituent bits to desired effect.

(Hm. This is going to show up in the feed. Bit meta for me.)

On Dec.07.2006 at 05:52 PM
Anthony Zinni’s comment is:

How cool would this be if it was to be made into a screensaver!

Massive possibilities... ;)

On Dec.07.2006 at 06:05 PM
James Gibson’s comment is:

Did someone say shameless promotion? Nonsense.
http://www.aigadesignjobs.org/jamesgibson

Hi Cooper Hewitt!

On Dec.07.2006 at 06:16 PM
Dave Werner’s comment is:

Can't wait to see this exhibit. Congratulations!

On Dec.07.2006 at 06:17 PM
James Gibson’s comment is:

But is it Art?

On Dec.07.2006 at 06:19 PM
James Gibson’s comment is:

Quark or InDesign?

(...and people at the Cooper-Hewitt start fighting.)

On Dec.07.2006 at 06:30 PM
pedrovit’s comment is:

Congratulations Bryony and Armin and all speakupers!!!
Paraphrasing (wrongly) Pink Floyd
WISH I WAS THERE

On Dec.07.2006 at 06:39 PM
pnk’s comment is:

OURABOROS, a novel

Chapter One:

Janice leaned in, past the jacketed shoulders and shoulder bags, to better read the text that refreshed every fifteen seconds on the glowing 17" monitor. As art it was questionable at best, with some semi-anonymous blogger commenting on the process of commenting in a mind numbing fiesta of meta-fictional navel gazing that reminded Janice of everything she hated about her studio class critiques. Still, she found herself strangely attracted to this nerdy invisible author...

On Dec.07.2006 at 07:06 PM
Ricardo’s comment is:

Congrats, Speak Up!

On Dec.07.2006 at 07:09 PM
Jan Tschichold’s comment is:

If we think clearly and approach each task with a fresh and determined mind, a good solution will usually result.

On Dec.07.2006 at 07:13 PM
Diane Witman’s comment is:

Checking in at the Cooper Hewitt from Fleetwood, PA.

I love SpeakUp! I love SpeakUp! I love SpeakUp!

Hopefully I'll be able to get my rear-end up to the big apple to see this live.

On Dec.07.2006 at 07:49 PM
Andrew Twigg’s comment is:

8:02 and I'm late to the party....

On Dec.07.2006 at 08:03 PM
Armin’s comment is:

Thanks for all the great comments. People were reading all this stuff and cracking up. A great show of support. Some people were wondering if we had "people" in our "office" writing these comments. Thanks again, and feel free to keep saying hi every now and then to museum dwellers through this post.

On Dec.07.2006 at 10:21 PM
ACG’s comment is:

Hello, museum dwellers! (This text was automatically generated by Speak Up's Automatic Comment Generator. Patent Pending).

On Dec.07.2006 at 10:41 PM
Les.Créativité’s comment is:

at the triennial tonight...great show, great crowd, great fun....all those good ideas floating around in the world, yippeee!

On Dec.07.2006 at 11:55 PM
Andy Malhan’s comment is:

This is a great idea.

I'm in New Delhi, India, so the odds of me making it to the museum to see the exhibit in the near future is slim to none - could take a 5-minute video clip and upload it so people who can't make it, can see it?

This is indicative of how far you've come with Speak Up, Armin. Congratulations!

On Dec.08.2006 at 08:49 AM
Diane Witman’s comment is:

Good morning to those visiting at the Cooper Hewitt!

I posted something from my PC last night and wasn't sure if it was going to work so I thought I would try from my Mac laptop this morning.

On Dec.08.2006 at 09:21 AM
Keith McCord’s comment is:

Armin’s comment is:
Thanks for all the great comments. People were reading all this stuff and cracking up. A great show of support. Some people were wondering if we had "people" in our "office" writing these comments.

I bet you got a big laught out of that one.

On Dec.08.2006 at 09:22 AM
keith’s comment is:

Armin-
You might want to beef up whatever spam blockers you can muster...already two random postings with some advertising going up

On Dec.08.2006 at 09:26 AM
Bryony’s comment is:

A sense of awe and a level of cuteness were associated with the live feed last night, but most of all whenever we were in the area people were reading intently. That for us, was a very high point.

On Dec.08.2006 at 10:01 AM
joshua’s comment is:

hello world?

On Dec.08.2006 at 10:24 AM
Pesky’s comment is:

Bryony, live feeds only make for awe, self-consciousness and cuteness, I guess. It's hard
to have anything like a real conversation, when people are virtually reading over your shoulder in a museum. Kinda creepy. (Hey, use some breath mints, over there. Yeah, you in the black coat and goatee.) Wondering if we should post pictures instead of just rambling chat but that's OK too.

I need a cup of coffee....

On Dec.08.2006 at 11:20 AM
Ryan Peterson’s comment is:

Ryan W. Peterson
Finally got my name into a Design Museum.
I'm calling my mom.

On Dec.08.2006 at 12:23 PM
karen’s comment is:

so i missed the party... i was too busy freezing my @$$ off in chicago.

many thanks to armin & co. for keeping me entertained throughout the day!!

On Dec.08.2006 at 02:05 PM
Keith McCord’s comment is:

but the party has just begun!
I went to the last tri-ennianl, and it rocks even if without the hub-bub of an opening.
...and the party on Speak-up never ends!

On Dec.08.2006 at 02:55 PM
Max Headroom’s comment is:

What you have just seen here and around you in every exhibit area is amazing, awesome, or mind-tickling.
You either know it or you do not.
Which is it:

You know?

You do not know?

Go figure.

On Dec.08.2006 at 03:03 PM
Caren Litherland’s comment is:

Quick! In under ten seconds, name five graphic designers who also happen to be women.

10

9

8

7

6

5

4

3

2

1

(buzzer sounds)

On Dec.08.2006 at 04:18 PM
Tselentis’s comment is:

This is not a page.

On Dec.08.2006 at 04:19 PM
Matt Hunsberger’s comment is:

Is my Word It actually there? If so, AWESOME.

On Dec.08.2006 at 04:29 PM
Caren Litherland’s comment is:

I haven't been down to see the installation yet, but I wonder: do museumgoers have the opportunity to input data? I mean, if someone walking by sees something in this stream that they want to interact with/respond to/participate in on the spot, can they (other than, say, via Blackberry)? That would be cool.

On Dec.08.2006 at 04:49 PM
F.T. Marinetti’s comment is:

We will, if need be, use 3 or 4 different colors and 20 different typefaces on the same page. For example: Italic for a series of similar and swift sensations. Bold for the imitation of heavy tones, and so on. A new conception of the typographic/painterly page.

On Dec.08.2006 at 04:58 PM
Bryony’s comment is:

do museumgoers have the opportunity to input data? I mean, if someone walking by sees something in this stream that they want to interact with/respond to/participate in on the spot, can they (other than, say, via Blackberry)? That would be cool.

A computer and keyboard are not available at the museum for this interaction, the best option is to write down the url and comment from home. With a warm cup of coffee, and good music in the background.

On Dec.08.2006 at 05:44 PM
1 of 300,000,000’s comment is:

Hello world!

Nice job Armin and Bryony. Felicidadez en este gran esfuerzo y les deseo lo mejor en este projecto.

A 17 inch screen? This would have been a great opportunity for Apple to step in and at least lend you a 30 inch display!

Much success!

On Dec.08.2006 at 07:56 PM
3 of 300,000,000’s comment is:

Mom?

Is that you?

What I told you abut not touching my computer?

On Dec.08.2006 at 07:59 PM
William Drenttel’s comment is:

Armin & Bryony, congratulations. It was so nice to see you at the opening.

On Dec.08.2006 at 08:00 PM
Pesky’s comment is:

Caren,
A quick list, but not a complete list:
1.) Elaine Bass, (the other half of Saul Bass's team)
2.) April Greiman
3.) Ellen Lipton
4.) Zuzana Licko
5.) Katherine McCoy

and also our very own SpeakUp designers: Marian Bantjes, Diane Witman and Bryony Gomez-Palacio among so many others.

No doubt there are plenty of others I forgot or would have to look up spelling their names, etc, but you gave a list time limit of ten seconds and I took 20 just typing them already.

If this was supposed to be a one sided conversation about the absence of women in design, I think you're clever trick is lacking. Recognition is not easy, we both understand that. But I, personally, work with women designers in the trenches every single day. They just don't get the applause meter. Is it fair? No, but nothing is.

On Dec.08.2006 at 08:53 PM
Joe Moran’s comment is:

( Ha! )

VR/

On Dec.08.2006 at 10:53 PM
ps’s comment is:

oh... are we on the air?

On Dec.09.2006 at 12:12 AM
Unnikrishna Menon Damodaran’s comment is:


Missing it!
I am in Saudi Arabia!
Can i get a PDF?!
Congratulations Bryony and Armin.

On Dec.09.2006 at 03:31 AM
Ben Weeks’s comment is:

Is anyone still there at 4:12 am?! It would be funny if you could write back. Hello janitorial and security staff !

This evening in my Toronto apartment I invented a new drink:
cherry chai apple cider.

It's late, I hope you sleep well soon. Goodnight.

On Dec.09.2006 at 04:38 AM
diane witman’s comment is:

1. Paula Scher
2. Veronique Vienne
3. Ellen Lupton
4. Marian Bantjes
5. Jessica Helfand

And many, many more...

On Dec.09.2006 at 10:02 AM
Pesky’s comment is:

Thanks, Diane. my list was incomplete.

On Dec.09.2006 at 10:49 AM
Keith McCord’s comment is:

I think the women in design question was more directed at the museum goers than at the fellow bloggers...
But my top 5:
1. Ellen Lupton (i went to mica, so i can say she's #1)
2. Paula Scher
3. Zuzana Licko (hooray for type design!)
4. Marian Bantjes
5. Byrony (come on she's the feminine side of SpeakUp - can't get much better than that!)

On Dec.09.2006 at 11:34 AM
Son of Lis’s comment is:

1. Elisabeth Charman
2. Elisabeth Charman
3. Elisabeth Charman
4. Elisabeth Charman
5. Elisabeth Charman

On Dec.09.2006 at 03:15 PM
El Lissitzky’s comment is:

The printed page transcends space and time. The printed page, the infinity of the book, must be transcended. THE ELECTRO-LIBRARY.

On Dec.09.2006 at 04:28 PM
Caren Litherland’s comment is:
I think the women in design question was more directed at the museum goers than at the fellow bloggers...
Yes, it was. It was meant to trigger some reflection and interaction from anyone who happened to be passing by the screen. Meant to be spoken, not typed.

And also just one of those silly, off-the-cuff blogging moments.

On Dec.09.2006 at 04:30 PM
Pesky’s comment is:

Caren, I see your point about off-the-cuff, so sorry if my response came off sounding awfully defensive - like your countdown thing was factitious. I misunderstood. By the way, one more name to add to that list would be Laurie Haycock Makela...


Open virtual bar: the drinks are on me!

On Dec.09.2006 at 06:25 PM
Tan’s comment is:

>VH1's 220+ comment post might be hard to beat.

Holy crap, does that old thread hold the record? Who knew? Yippee-kai-ya.

Hey everyone! it's been a long time. I've been in the witness protection program, and my trial is finally over. So I'm back -- at least for as long as I can. I've missed you guys. How's the food around here these days?

Wanted to say congrats to Armin and Bry, and congrats to the other authors and posters that have made SU (as opposed to Su) what it is. It's an amazing accomplishment to make Cooper-Hewitt.

And kudos to Ellen Lupton for curating such an ambitious exhibition.

On Dec.09.2006 at 08:40 PM
Keith McCord’s comment is:

I was just going to ask if anyone knew where Tan was hiding (because of the VH1 thread) Some cool work on the WONGDOODY site...hope you're around more as you often have inspiring things to say and interesting articles to read!

On Dec.10.2006 at 02:20 PM
Caroline ’s comment is:

Hi there, Speak Up, I learned about you at the Triennial preview. Congratulations on being part of such an amazing group of honorees. I'm a latecomer to the blogosphere, but I just started one a few weeks ago on design in Philadelphia. I wouldn't be telling you this except that someone way up there asked for a videoclip of the exhibit. I don't have video, but I did take some pics and posted a mini-dispatch on www.design-phan.squarespace.com

On Dec.10.2006 at 07:00 PM
Shahla’s comment is:

Comments on the live feed are a bit like movie ads that scroll up suddenly in mall adboards and don’t have the feel of the real blog, Speak-Up, precisely because there’s no mouse, keyboard, or 30 inch display.

Caroline, I liked reading that bit of history on Carnegie’s mansion over at design-phan and together with the credits here for House of Pretty = synchronicity.

On Dec.10.2006 at 08:57 PM
Diane Witman’s comment is:

Caroline, thank you for posting the link to your blog! There were some interesting photos and links that I took notice of. I am about an hour north of Philadelphia and hope to get up to the exhibit sometime soon. Thanks for the coverage!

On Dec.10.2006 at 09:02 PM
Shahla’s comment is:

Please take out the true apostrophes in the comment above.
Aarg!
Limitations of the technology!!!

On Dec.10.2006 at 09:14 PM
Shahla’s comment is:

Meanwhile, let's see what happens with these:
’ = apostrophe

On Dec.10.2006 at 09:38 PM
Pesky’s comment is:

Seriously...

Comments on the live feed ARE a bit like movie ads, Shala. I agree. It's so unusual...Speak-Up is likeable because of the fluid interaction of lots of designers from all over the place, this is a whole other bird precisely because there’s no mouse, keyboard, or 30 inch display for interaction. It's typing.

The C-H is an interesting place, I hear ...but a jumbotron screen isn't going to make this any better than what it is...

Hiya Armin! Weren't you in Mel Gibson's "Apocalypto" as the guy on the top of the pyramid with the cool hat on? He looked familiar....

On Dec.11.2006 at 09:27 AM
Pesky’s comment is:

I mean, Shahla. Got your name wrong.

On Dec.11.2006 at 09:30 AM
Bryony’s comment is:

Tan, welcome back.
Caroline, welcome to Speak Up.

On Dec.11.2006 at 01:17 PM
Shahla’s comment is:

Most museums don't allow photography which actually gets people to expend energy and spend money to see collections they house. I'll try to make a long-overdue trip to NYC for a taste of the city and to see Speak-Up's 'bird' —nice interplay, Mark— sometime before it closes.

This, friends, is a double-post.

On Dec.11.2006 at 03:07 PM
Rob’s comment is:

Well, I just thought I'd also send kudo's out to Ellen for curating such a wonderful exhibition. To Bryony and Armin for being able to sustain and continue to establish SpeakUp as a preeminent voice for design. It's a great resource that has garnered the recognition it deserves with special thanks to Su for all the things that we can't see but are essential.

On Dec.11.2006 at 03:24 PM
KevinHopp’s comment is:

So now that the weekend is over, how about we ask SpeakUp to use my post as a segueway to more intriguing matters in graphic design.

----


In some small way I think celebrating these pedestrian words in a museum setting simplifies what we do. And, ironically, nobody has discussed WordIt.

So, what's this thread all about?

I mean if WordIt is no longer of interest than what is?

Will we turn this into a window of our professional lives and our interaction with the world market and pending social issues?

Or will this be an incestuous thread of swapping hi fives and public petting - I have to disagree with Byrony and Witman being in a list with the likes of Licko and McCoy, no offense.

On Dec.11.2006 at 04:45 PM
keith mccord’s comment is:

KevinHopp...do you have some need to be sarcastic about everything? And if WordfIt is the only part of SpeakUp that you think matters, then you haven't been paying attention to the rest of the site. This particular thread may be purposed to pull people's attention to the fact that they're being broadcast in a museum exhibit, but there are plenty of intersting discussions going on at SpeakUp (which have been semi-ignored since this thread came along). But anyway. If you have something interesting to talk about, say it, but don't go about insulting people for what they are talking about.

On Dec.11.2006 at 06:00 PM
KevinHopp’s comment is:

You can easily email me your personal thoughts by clicking on my name.

I started off as a Graphic Designer at BBDO in 2001, it was there where I started to visit the site, so I've been paying attention to everything on the site since the beginning. Armin can vouch for that I think, and he also knows I use sarcasm in hopes people will reflect a bit.

If you are not easily offended you will see that I'm trying to create a smarter thread. I did not single anyone out. I merely asked SpeakUp to direct the thread to a clear subject matter. Whether that will be to talk about a particular word, the process of conceptualizing a word/thought, or perhaps a particular direction. After all Wordit IS the focus of the exhibit.

If another subject is more appropriate, bring it on. It's the audience I'm trying to engage anyways. This thread could literally be a call-to-action.

If this IS a kind of birthday bash congratulatory thread then so be it. I'm 100% supportive of graphic design exhibits.

I don't feel it's my position to create something interesting to talk about. But if I was to choose, I would talk about how Word It started, where it is now, and possibly how it could improve on itself if needed.

On Dec.11.2006 at 06:51 PM
Diane Witman’s comment is:

Hopps:
No offense taken. I was happy that my name was even mentioned. I enjoy reading the posts and comments on this site as well as joining them. But I have to argue with you about the listing of Byrony. She is the other half of team Under Consideration which includes the site you are posting on as well as the Design Encyclopedia, Brand New, and she is a partner of Nice Design. I didn't see anything wrong with her listing here. Besides, I think Pesky was just being flattering. Nothing wrong with that, it's better then sarcasm (most times).

On Dec.11.2006 at 08:00 PM
Su’s comment is:

Mr. Hopp may, if he's unaware, be interested to note that the feed is pulling from comments site-wide, and that if he wants to talk about something else, he is entirely free to wherever such discussion may be happening.
The fact that this post is currently the most active is nothing more than symptomatic of some simple facts: a) it was at the top of the site at the moment, and b) such was encouraged.

This was never the place to "create a smarter thread." It's, "Yay, look at this thingy that went up at the Cooper-Hewitt, everbody join in."

Wait for the next meaningful(or whatever) post and move along.

On Dec.12.2006 at 01:04 AM
Jeff’s comment is:

Hmm. Works on my PC.

On Dec.12.2006 at 03:49 AM
woodie anderson’s comment is:

Congrats to Speak UP on the the show. I've enjoyed Word It as great outlet for my random creative energy. Thanks for making it easier for us all to participate in, commiserate with and celebrate the design community. Cheers!

On Dec.12.2006 at 08:45 AM
Armin’s comment is:

> After all Wordit IS the focus of the exhibit.

It's funny that Word It became such a big part of the exhibit and in the catalogue, since it's roughly no more than "25%" of Speak Up... Even in terms of real estate, it's no more than 5% probably. We enjoy that it's a testament to the energy that they display and their detachment of the typical client-based design process. Thoughts on Word It can be (and have been) placed within the monthly announcements. We take all comments seriously.

And to echo what Su said... Comments from all Speak Up discussions are funneled into the feed. The idea is to give a sense of the activity and range of contributions to museum attendees.

On Dec.12.2006 at 09:16 AM
Bryony’s comment is:

No offense here either. That is what this is all about: opinions. Difference of opinions specifically.

And Pesky, I am honored to be included in your list, and hopefully one day I will feel like I deserve it. For the time being I shall continue to strive for it.

On Dec.12.2006 at 09:59 AM
Keith McCord’s comment is:

You can easily email me your personal thoughts by clicking on my name.
I feel its much more interesting and engaging to discuss them in open forum, especially considering they involve the thread and the people speaking here.

On Dec.12.2006 at 10:37 AM
Keith McCord’s comment is:

Quick! In under ten seconds, name five graphic designers who also happen to be women.
And just to point it out, the 5 women designer question wasn't neccessarily a "best of" list

On Dec.12.2006 at 10:40 AM
KevinHopp’s comment is:

Ahhh...I like that all our comments are funneled to C-H.

I was obviously doodling during the meeting.

Nice work.

Diane, please don't get me wrong, there's plenty of respect for everyone at SpeakUp.

I'm not being sarcastic, but I don't think SpeakUp influences my design work. Not in the same way as working with a Licko typeface, or by joyfully studying the nostalgia in Elaine Bass's work. I wouldn't say that Brand New nor the Design Encyclopedia greatly impact my work either.

It is my opinion that because Byrony is 30 years junior to someone like McCoy that they're not really in the same roster. To me, it's a nieve and way too post-modernish of a rating. But that doesn't mean I'm saying Byrony sux either! And, I'll put all my marbles that in certain time the SpeakUp duo will be well worth all the praise as mainstream design afficionados.

Although SpeakUp doesn't influence my work, I think it impacts my life in a positive way. When I venture out to St Clair, city of maybe 5,000 and spend time out here, I still have the opportunity to have a dialog about design. SpeakUp and other sites allow me to stay connected when I need to get the hell out of Detroit.

So, there are many thanks to Byrony and Armin for gathering gobs of design info and blogging their opinions.

Although I tend to lean towards the tangible, I think I'm a bit confused on whether a critic or a professor has as much impact as the person who actually created the work...

Education is a major. Journalism is a degree.
Design is working with your mouth shut.

On Dec.12.2006 at 12:00 PM
Kevin Hopp’s comment is:

Keith,

You know what you're right - I shouldn't have given the designers here the benefit of the doubt when they decided to use numerals instead of bullets.

Numbers are a symbol for importance, as in 'first in class'.

Since you feel the need to speak for the designers who posted their list, I have to ask, was the designer who is first in their list their 'favorite'?

On Dec.12.2006 at 12:25 PM
Michael Surtees’s comment is:

If I'm really honest, I'm not sure if I would be where I am today w/out Speak Up. There wasn't any one particular post or comment that took me to that next level, but the interaction both online and via person to person w/ current and past authours and others that participated here was incredibly valuable both professionally and personally. So thanks eh, and yes, congrats to the recognition.

: )

On Dec.12.2006 at 01:46 PM
KevinHopp’s comment is:

What a great additional thought... what brought us to where we are professionally today... what were some of our major influences and why we did we chose design after all.

I'd like to hear those stories if anyone is willing to share.

On Dec.12.2006 at 02:24 PM
Diane Witman’s comment is:

Education is a major. Journalism is a degree.
Design is working with your mouth shut.

Are you a practicing designer??? If this is how you truly feel about the design profession maybe you are in the wrong industry. I don't want to take your statement in the wrong way so can you elaborate on "working with your mouth shut."?

Maybe The Design Encylopedia, Speak Up, and/or Brand New don't impact your work but it opens up something more desirable. Designers get to communicate to each other in ways that thay would never have been able to in the past. Sharing ideas, debating important topics as well as encouraging each other.

The most impact Speak Up has had on me is knowing that I am not the only designer who feels a certain way, I am not alone. When you live in a suburban area such as I do you don't get the opportunities nor the desired interaction with others in your profession. And more importantly, you have to start somewhere. Who knows what kind of impact any of the sites out of Under Consideration will have in the future with the growing medium of the Web.

On Dec.12.2006 at 02:41 PM
Raven’s comment is:

I don't remember how I found SpeakUP. I remember being glad, feeling energized by the conversations I could see, by the things I learned by reading the site. I've learned a lot just by 'hanging out' here, and reading everyone's comments, looking at WordIT,etc. Perhaps as much as I have learned in the classroom. There's such a variety of people from so many places and backgrounds here; its a really amazing resource. - oh, anyone noticed if the images apear on the livefeed? I noticed some in the comments but haven't seen 'em on the livefeed.

On Dec.12.2006 at 03:20 PM
Keith McCord’s comment is:

Numbers are a symbol for importance, as in 'first in class'.
You accuse me of being the one who is speaking for everyone else, but you are making a pretty broad generaliztion here.

Since you feel the need to speak for the designers who posted their list, I have to ask, was the designer who is first in their list their 'favorite'? I can only speak for myself, but perhaps they reacted to the question...name five graphic designers

On Dec.12.2006 at 03:35 PM
KevinHopp’s comment is:

I just mean when you design you are usually not talking or writing. Simply said.

I do not mean that design should not be influenced by anything but itself - one of the main reasons I studied design was it's interdisciplinary nature. I do however disagree with someone calling themself a designer because they teach it or write about it. Most of the time these people failed on a professional level.

And yes, I am a professional graphic designer. I've worked with likes of HunterDouglas, DaimlerChrysler, Kimberly-Clark, Camel Cigarettes, Orient-Express Hotels, Mercedes-Bens, Jeep, Xgames, SEGA, NVIDIA, Slinky Company, and many, many other smaller companys. I've created everything from installation design, to web sites, to logos, to toy packaging. I've also placed in several competitions in the Detroit area.

I love the idea of the SpeakUp community, and I emphasized that by saying, now that I'm at a getaway, it's even better because I feel connected. I also thanked Armin and Byrony for their efforts. So we feel the same Diane. We are not alone together.

Can you please clarify, And more importantly, you have to start somewhere.?

On Dec.12.2006 at 03:46 PM
kevinhopp’s comment is:

I don't think it's a generalization Keith - numbers are used for ranking all over the world.

FIRST PLACE goes to Kevin Hopp out of Detroit.

First seated University of Michigan Wolverines.

Reg Wings were in FIRST place for their division umpteen years in a row.

Rounding the first stretch is Harry Eyeball, followed in the number TWO position by Georgia Bold.

and of course ending up in last place, the tenth position is IGNOR ANCE.

On Dec.12.2006 at 03:54 PM
Keith McCord’s comment is:

Numbers can mean rank, but they also show quantity...5 women designers, 92 email posts, they quantify a group. You are applying that 1 is only used to mean 1st...1 is also singular, solitary, alone. 0 is before one in concurrence and value, but nobody places in the 0 percentile or ranks in the 0 place out of 10.

On Dec.12.2006 at 04:37 PM
Kevin Hopp’s comment is:

yep, they show ranking, quantity, dates, distances, years, etc.

On Dec.12.2006 at 05:29 PM
kh’s comment is:

Lisabeth Beattie
Anne Herford
Melissa Wilson
Tara Grewe
Jane Maybank

All are or were coworkers. Sorry nobody famous.

I'm done talking about numbers, rankings and quantities. I'll leave that to dot dot dot.

On Dec.12.2006 at 05:39 PM
Diane Witman’s comment is:

Can you please clarify, And more importantly, you have to start somewhere.?

I mean that they started up these different sites (Brand New, Speak Up & The Design Encyclopedia)and they (an we) are widening the arenas for people to discuss and enjoy graphic design.

I just mean when you design you are usually not talking or writing. Simply said.

I hope you mean about design in general, not the project at hand.

I talk, write and think all of the time when I am creating a design. I sketch, I write down my thoughts. Not about the general ideas in design but about each project. My co-workers and my bosses all like to discuss design (even those who are not trained in this area), we all have thoughts and sometimes that helps ideas grow. And at other times I do keep my mouth shut, only because I need the time to stew or to think deeper about something not because I think I should keep my mouth shut.

Do you read design magazines at all? How did you come across and continue to visit Speak Up when you apparently are bitter towards writers and teachers of design? Isn't this how you learned about design or are you self taught? Just curious...

On Dec.12.2006 at 08:07 PM
Ravenone’s comment is:

Diane-
Pfft. Of course he doesn't read. No one in design reads. I mean, it's not like letters are symbols, or even words are arbitrary symbols, or are any way related to design. :) On a more serrious note; what inspired you to go into design?

On Dec.12.2006 at 08:27 PM
Diane Witman’s comment is:

Me? I think it all started way before I even knew it. My father is an engineer (I'm finding this a common thread amongst designers) and would always bring a computer home with him and I would play games such as Hangman and then learned how to use MS DOS and things that no young child should know at my age. That combined with my interest of art came to a peak in high school when I was able to spend half of my day at a Vo-Tech school for Commercial Art. Then came college and now I am a practicing Art Director in a stimulating creative work environment. I love it.

On Dec.12.2006 at 08:36 PM
Kevin Hopp’s comment is:

Are you the same Diane from circa1979?

I'm not bitter about professors. Shoot, if anything, most professors are bitter because they never succeeded with their craft.

And of course I mean design in general! Of course, you sketch, of course you talk about ideas with coffee mug in hand. You are taking me way too literal. Think outside the period.

Do you think writing about design is design, or something?

Do you read design magazines at all? How did you come across and continue to visit Speak Up when you apparently are bitter towards writers and teachers of design? Isn't this how you learned about design or are you self taught? Just curious...

Yes I read mags, books, etc. I have several back issues of Emigre, most of the dot dot dot journals. How, Print, Commercial Arts from time to time, ya know, the usuals. I would tell you what I'm reading now, but I don't want to share that here - everyone has their secret typeface, right?

I did not learn about design from Armin and SpeakUp - I already mentioned in this very thread how and when I was introduced to SpeakUp.

I watched design from music. I have over 1500 vinyl records with beautiful cover art. I began to create flyers for my events and was teaching myself HTML before classes were available. From there I realized that design was a lot of fun and a lucrative way to express myself. I talked to my mentor Tony Hopp, enrolled, graduated, then landed a job at BBDO. I would say BBDO was where I learned to apply the fundamentals from my education, and thus truely became a designer by application and working with senior creatives.

It's ludicrous to question whether I went to school or currently keep up with design mags just because I am considered a controversial blogger at SpeakUp. That's offensive.

If your site is circa1979, then it's terribly ironic that you would ask if I was self-taught when you boast about being a designer way before you received your BFA in communication arts. More like you self-appointed yourself a designer because you were in school, maybe bought Photoshop, and possibly require to be called something more than you were. But then again, as you said, you were a graphic designer way before you knew it. Give me a break.

Since your manners slipped, I will politely ask Raveone, how he or she was introduced to design, and how it's panning out.

On Dec.13.2006 at 01:34 AM
Miss Manners’s comment is:

Kevin, rudeness and antipathy are just not acceptable here. Being rude is not being a controversial blogger, it's merely stupid and arrogant. Give it a rest.

On Dec.13.2006 at 07:47 AM
Kevin Hopp’s comment is:

She offended me and I don't think it's fair people gang up on me just because I happen to question them or the subject at hand.

If you read above, I have been quite pleasent about getting people to talk about themselves.

I also thing it's "stupid and arrogant" and rude of her to assume that I don't read magazines, or that I'm not a practicing designer JUST because I happen to have a different opinion.

But in the end, y'all will gang up on me again...I'm such a jerk for having an opinion.

On Dec.13.2006 at 09:52 AM
Diane Witman’s comment is:

I also thing it's "stupid and arrogant" and rude of her to assume that I don't read magazines, or that I'm not a practicing designer JUST because I happen to have a different opinion.

First, I didn't assume I was asking you a question. Did you notice the question mark? If I was assuming I would say something to the effect of "You don't read design magazines, do you?"

And also I wasn't asking if you learned about design from Speak Up, I was referring to the teachers and the writers that you were speaking of.

You don't magically become a designer because you are given a degree. Many designers are self-taught and don't ever receive a degree in design. So for the sake of conversation I was certified as a Commercial Artist and then I went on to receive my B.F.A. I was a practicing designer in High School, it may not be near the level that I am at now but it started long before I received my B.F.A.

It's ludicrous to question whether I went to school or currently keep up with design mags just because I am considered a controversial blogger at SpeakUp. That's offensive.

SO please explain to me how it is offensive that I am asking you questions to know you a bit better? I am not asking you because you think you are a controversial blogger, because getting underneath other blogger's skin is not controversial. I rarely feel challenged by someone who knows so little about me. Are you always this way when you meet people?

On Dec.13.2006 at 10:32 AM
Pesky’s comment is:

On another subject:

Larry Bannock, the New Orleans black Indian I wrote an essay about on Speak Up a few weeks ago, just got out of the hospital and recieved the money raised in the appeal at the end of the design article. This is one example of designers actually making a small difference in the life of a non-traditional artist via our extraordinary connection here. To everyone who contributed, especially Armin and Bryony, I'd like to say thank you most sincerely. He was pleasantly surprized. At this time it'll really help out.

To those who haven't read this piece it's in the archives:
http://www.underconsideration.com/speakup/archives/002801.html

On Dec.13.2006 at 01:18 PM
Keith McCord’s comment is:

thank you for the graceful trasition mark.

On Dec.13.2006 at 01:27 PM
Caren Litherland’s comment is:

Mark Andresen wrote:

I see your point about off-the-cuff, so sorry if my response came off sounding awfully defensive - like your countdown thing was factitious. I misunderstood. By the way, one more name to add to that list would be Laurie Haycock Makela...

No worries, Mark, it was all in good fun. Meet you in the bar.

Caren

PS Love your work.

On Dec.13.2006 at 03:01 PM
Kevin Hopp’s comment is:

Welcome home Larry.


Diane,

The tone in your posts suggested that I was hack - someone who doesn't keep up with design, didn't go to school and has no right to express an opinion.

You may defend yourself by saying they were simple questions, however your overall tone was suggesting something different.

i.e.
Are you a practicing designer??? If this is how you truly feel about the design profession maybe you are in the wrong industry.

Do you read design magazines at all?

Honestly, Diane, you were trying to get to know me? And, you were being nice, too? As in, are you always this way when you meet people?

The fact is that I expressed my opinion and you publicly questioned my integrity. You said the design industry is not for me if I feel a certain way. (The only thing I am guilty of is assuming the lists were rankings, as in, she's my #1)

And I totally disagree with your thought:
You don't magically become a designer because you are given a degree. Many designers are self-taught and don't ever receive a degree in design....I was a practicing designer in High School, it may not be near the level that I am at now but it started long before I received my B.F.A.

When someone graduates from a program, they are usually considered a technician in that field. Dentistry, Law, Medicine, Aeronautics, etc. It's not magic that someone becomes a journalist after they graduate with a degree in journalism. It's logic, a natural progression.

I think it's probably more 'magical' that someone who is self-taught can hang with designers who graduated. At the level I'm working at I would guess that maybe 5% of them are self-taught. So I can't speak for knowing MANY designers who are self-taught. (I know Jeff Gill though, hi buddy, you hate me too?) However, I do know plenty of production artists, retouchers and web developers who are self-taught.

See, Diane, where we differ is that I wouldn't consider myself a designer because I put together a brochure for the corner business while I was in High School.

It's my belief that you have to reach a certain level of understanding design before you can call yourself a designer. Honestly, just because someone owns Photoshop and can click on a few tools DOES NOT mean they are a designer in my opinion. It's like calling yourself a musician when you only know three chords.

...it started long before I received my B.F.A.

What started? Your interest in graphic design? Your professional career? What is 'it'?

On Dec.13.2006 at 04:13 PM
Diane Witman’s comment is:

Kevin, Ravenone asked: On a more serrious note; what inspired you to go into design?

I wasn't really inspired so I was describing more or less how I found my path to becoming a Graphic Designer. And when I say I was designing, whether bad or good, it is how I began developing into what I am today. I think this has a major impact on how I was inspired to go into design.

On Dec.13.2006 at 04:36 PM
pnk’s comment is:

For the record, you can be a damn good musician even if you know only three chords. Probably not a very versatile musician, granted, but versatility is only one measure of quality.

On Dec.13.2006 at 05:21 PM
Cecilia Rivero’s comment is:

A musician who only knows three chords won't go anywhere really.

In the history of music, there is no great musician who only knew three chords.

You can make a great song with three chords, but expressing yourself as a musician, I've never seen that.

I graduated from the Buenos Aires Conservatory of Music. My aunt and mom know three chords on the piano. I've never heard them say, "Hello, my name is Edith, I am from Buenos Aires and I am a musician."

On Dec.13.2006 at 05:50 PM
Kevin Hopp’s comment is:

Diane,

Essentially you feel that whenever someone creates something for marketing or for whatever purpose, and it doesn't matter if it's bad of good, skilled or hacked, all the work is categorized as design?

If that's true then I would have to say you are very objective.

If you think about it, most kids these days learn how to create a web page in High School. Some people even design their own mySpace page. Are they designers in your book also?

On Dec.13.2006 at 06:10 PM
Kevin Hopp’s comment is:

Is anyone familiar with Norman Potter?

On Dec.13.2006 at 06:13 PM
pnk’s comment is:

On Dec.13.2006 at 06:43 PM
Cecilia Rivero’s comment is:

The Ramones wrote songs in three chords, but that doesn't mean they were in the same scale. They could have written in G scale using C, D and G, or they could have written in F scale using Bb, C and F.

I just pulled out my boyfriends cds and I listened to 5 songs. All of them were written in different scales, so that means Johnny knew at least 8 chords just from those 5 songs alone.

On Dec.13.2006 at 07:07 PM
Diane Witman’s comment is:

Well in a sense yes, and in a sense no. I have seen a lot of bad designs out there, does this mean that they are not designers? No, it just means that they aren't good designers.

Those who decorate their MySpace pages aren't designers but they are designing their space. But I agree with you this does not make them a "designer".

On the other hand let's say someone receives a degree in Graphic Design, does this make them a Designer? Not necessarily, the actual practice of design is what proves your abilities not the degree. A degree is very important in showing your dedication to the field that you have chosen. If it's in the case of bad and good, someone can still graduate with a degree if they have a C or even possibly D average, sad is it may be but you don't have to be great or even good in order to get that paper up on your wall.

So is good design the only thing that should be categorized as design? I would have to say no, because it all depends on the criteria that is being juged upon. It brings back the same question of who is to say what is art and what isn't? I do understand the point you are trying to make but where do we draw the line?

On Dec.13.2006 at 07:14 PM
Michael Surtees’s comment is:

Is anyone familiar with Norman Potter?

you mean that bible for design?

What is a designer: things, places, messages

On Dec.13.2006 at 08:40 PM
Tselentis’s comment is:

Mr. Surtees, I read that Potter book as an undergrad, and it was one of the items that directed me into design. Why do you ask?

On Dec.13.2006 at 09:29 PM
Michael Surtees’s comment is:

Mr. T - if you scroll up to Mr. Hopp's last question, you'll have the answer.

On Dec.13.2006 at 09:52 PM
Ravenone’s comment is:

Kevin-sorry if you took my remarks as serrious, and if they upset you. To answer your question I am a she, and my introduction to design was in a college class. Alas, all I learned in that class were about 12 or so different types of lines, along with how divided the teacher felt the art and design worlds were. I retreated from it, then circled back towards design while working on a paper later that year on Tristan Tzara. I'll admit, I'm much more an artist than designer(BFA-painting/arthistory), but find the stuff I've learned while studying design to be most useful. There's a lot I don't know, and I feel comfortable in knowing that there will be always something new to learn.
Feel free to email me sometime.

On Dec.13.2006 at 11:39 PM
Kevin’s comment is:

What is a designer? is probably one of the better reads I've had reagarding the broad arena of design.

I think we touched on a few of the topics in the book throughout the lower end of this post. I was just wondering if anyone else was into the book. I think I'm going to read it again.

On Dec.14.2006 at 12:49 PM
Kevin’s comment is:

Does anyone know of a book that is similar in subject?

On Dec.14.2006 at 12:50 PM
Diane Witman’s comment is:

After adding that book to my Amazon.com wish list it recommended a few other books. One of them that caught my eye was: Design Is...Words, Things, People, Buildings, and Places at Metropolis (Paperback) by David Carson.

Here is the description:
Like the magazine, Metropolis, that spawned it, Design Is...celebrates design in all its guises. This anthology of groundbreaking articles presents an ongoing conversation about design and design culture in the generous and lucid manner we have come to expect from this world-famous publication. Over seventy contributors-including virtually every important design writer of the last twenty years, like Paul Goldberger, Luc Sante, Philippe Starck, Phillip Lopate, Julius Shulman, Michael Sorkin, and Paola Antonelli-reveal how design has permeated all aspects of our lives and how it will continue to shape the places we live and work and the objects we buy and use in the future. Design Is... is an easy and enjoyable introduction to the designed world around us, and a knowing, rollicking reader for those who are passionate about design.

On Dec.14.2006 at 08:33 PM
Jamie Wolf’s comment is:

We have a small design/build company in Avon, CT. At coffee breaks we throw on the video projector and web surf. Sometimes we drop in to SpeakUp and link off - longer breaks ensue!

Next Friday, December 29 I am bringing a group of high school kids - about half of which are young women interested in design careers (architecture/graphic arts/industrial design/robotics) - to NY on a "design journey" - beginning at the Cooper Hewitt exhibit.

After the exhibit I'd love to take them to meet designers and see design studios. Being the mavens that you are would you head us in a direction - or even better help connect me with a willing designer or two?

For the trip I created a blog at:

simplybeautiful.typepad.com/designjourney

Thanks for the world you weave!

On Dec.19.2006 at 06:54 PM
Joe Moran’s comment is:

Kevin,

Anything by or about Paul Rand or Anton Stankowski!

If you stop learning you are dead!

VR/

On Dec.24.2006 at 09:49 PM
Kevin Hopp’s comment is:

Thanks Joe, I'm pretty familiar with, eh hem Paul Rand.

Berlin and Detroit are like family; Stankowski is talked about a lot here.

On Dec.27.2006 at 10:33 PM
Joe Moran’s comment is:

Whoops! Didn't know you were "that" Kevin.

On Dec.28.2006 at 01:11 PM
Jeff Gill’s comment is:

Happy 2007 from the UK!

On Dec.31.2006 at 07:33 PM
keith’s comment is:

Happy New Year Cooper-Hewitt!
I'll be seeing you soon!

On Jan.02.2007 at 09:17 AM
keith mccord’s comment is:

cooper hewwit, here i come!

On Jan.27.2007 at 08:01 AM
Disinterested Bloke’s comment is:

:::wacking the screen a few times::::

Is this thing still going?

On Jan.27.2007 at 10:02 AM
Carl W. Smith’s comment is:

“In the age of MyPhotos, MyDocuments, and MySpace, there are certainly ways to create "MyTriennial" as well.” Ellen Lupton

On Mar.11.2007 at 08:44 PM