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Help for “Design Help”

While we’re airing our grievances, what do you people have against the Design Help section of this website? It never did anything to you, but you treat it like a second-class citizen. Don’t you need help? Design help? Between you and me, I think Design Help’s feelings are hurt. I think we can all say sayonara to Design Help if something doesn’t change pretty soon.

Oh. Well, yeah, I see what you mean. Sharing unfinished work with the other designers in your department is one thing; putting it on the web for all to see—including, God forbid, your clients—is quite another. Imagine if an author found the site and saw a version of her cover that I’d scrapped. Maybe she loves it. Maybe now she’s mad at her editor—who rejected the cover, who works in my office, and who’s now mad at me. Maybe I take someone’s advice on a design and it results in a beautiful book. Can I take credit for it? Can I enter it in a juried show? Methinks not, but what about you? What’s your policy on sharing unfinished work—on the web or elsewhere? Ideas welcome on how Speak Up might play a role, if you think it’s possible. Or desirable.

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ENTRY DETAILS
ARCHIVE ID 1451 FILED UNDER Discussion
PUBLISHED ON May.14.2003 BY rebecca
WITH COMMENTS
Comments
jonsel’s comment is:

As a solo freelancer, it definitely helps to run work by others on occasion. But I'm hesitant to post something for all to see. First and foremost, there's a level of confidentiality between a client and designer that should not be taken lightly. It's one thing to post, "hey, I'm working on a new identity for a software company." It's quite another to throw up 3 potential designs with names for the entire web to see, with no guarantee that the client or a competitor or their best friend won't stumble upon it.

Secondly, I would have to fully explain the project or responses would be surface-level at best. A detailed design brief would need to be included so respondents could have a strategy with which to base their opinions.

What it really comes down to, in truth, is that there are certain people I trust for their design opinions and those are the people I go to for second opinions or added ideas when I hit a sticking point. I'm comfortable enough in my own abilities that I don't need or want to open up my process to everyone. That may seem egotistical or snobbish; I guess I'll just have to deal with it. I doubt I'm the only one who feels like this or some work would have been posted by now.

I'm happy to share something once it's finished. Then I don't care so much if everyone hates it. Maybe that's a more viable existence for the Design Help section. Somebody could share the process of the project, from brief through initial sketches to the presented concepts and the chosen and final outcome.

On May.14.2003 at 05:27 PM
armin’s comment is:

I almost cried of thinking that "Design Help" is sad. Poor bo... Girl, I meant girl, Rebecca : )

I can definitely understand why people are hesitant to post work in progress and I am sure there is more to it than being worried about a client stumbling upon it. Matter of fact is we [Speak Up readers] are tough, we have pity on nobody. So I can imagine the fear of posting something for all of us to discern. Even if we mean good by critiquing it can come out totally different on the postee's end.

The Design Help section was a last minute addition and I think I'll blame it on Darrel, he sent me an email suggesting a section like that. I knew it wouldn't be such a popular feature, but I wanted to try it nonetheless.

Technologically, this is probably one of the worst sites to maintain a decent critique forum. Typophile is the best at this sort of thing and they have a whole infrastructure to support it. We don't.

And please, don't go posting something just for pitty. Design Help would be offended by it.

On May.14.2003 at 06:37 PM
corey’s comment is:

Could I post a typeface that I'm having a rough time with? I didn't see a specific section for it, so I would assume it would fall under the 'print - other' section.

I need to polish it a little more before I show it to everyone, but would that be a proper use of the 'Design Help' section?

On May.14.2003 at 08:08 PM
armin’s comment is:

>Could I post a typeface that I'm having a rough time with?

You could, but you would get much better feedback at Typophile. I have seen some of the best typefaces being developed there based on the comments given.

I suck as a self-salesman.

On May.15.2003 at 08:39 AM
Darrel’s comment is:

I had no idea that section even existed.

On May.15.2003 at 08:53 AM
Sam’s comment is:

New entry, calling for help for the Swedes:

Hyper Island Type Survey

On May.15.2003 at 09:51 AM
Christopher May’s comment is:

Hyper Island...

We are presently in the process of bringing in a Hyper Island kat for his intern. That school rocks!

On May.15.2003 at 10:21 AM
john’s comment is:

Don't laugh, but where I work now, showing unfinished design is grounds to be fired... not because "what if clients see it..." but /sigh/ because the AEs are worried that other agencies would see the clients and what they need, and using that info, "steal" clients. Ridiculous, I know... but there ya have it...

On May.15.2003 at 10:53 AM
rebecca’s comment is:

wow john. actually i can imagine that being a serious concern, for big enough clients and evil enough ad execs.

and i like jonsel's idea of a post mortem critique. anyone else?

On May.15.2003 at 11:03 AM
Darrel’s comment is:

I'm the lone designer in a state agency. I'd be glad to post some works in progress in short time. I could use some fellow designer critiquing.

On May.15.2003 at 01:13 PM
griff’s comment is:

One simple reason for it's neglect might be the site design.

The design seems very blog like which is great for the running conversation at hand but does little to promote sub pages.

If a teaser element of deeper pages could be "bubbled" up to the home page and change often, it might get more interaction.

I read this site every day, but by my third visit or so i really only look at the latest post in the middle column and the (seemingly random?) image that pops up at the top of the right column (site teasers).

I notice this pattern on my personal blog as well. The second most viewed page (beyond the index or home page) is only viewed by less than 1% of my visitors.

On May.15.2003 at 02:10 PM
griff’s comment is:

Hmmm, sorry, I just realized you do bubble up some content from lower pages or archives to the home page.

Maybe it is not graphical enough to notice. Maybe when i find the time, we could do a full blown Heuristic evaluation of the site. Maybe not.

On May.15.2003 at 02:16 PM
Darrel’s comment is:

Griff may be on to something. I think Armin did a great job on this site. That said, the navigation along the left feels to be more decoration than functional. Perhaps it's just the miniscule type surrounded by rather large decorative elements.

Or maybe it's just that I see the site as a blog and tend to forget that there may be other parts.

As for the stuff in the right column, I will forever use a narrow-window browser, so I never see that stuff anyways. ;o)

On May.15.2003 at 02:26 PM
Sam’s comment is:

A general question raised by the Design Help obscurity--are pull-down menus not well understood? Or, do they have a limited use? I have had clients fail to even notice pull-down menus. Peronsally, I think they're great--very efficient in terms of real estate. But you can't convey a lot of information in there. What sites use them well?

Perhaps one thing that is difficult about the Design Help pull-downs is, the numbers next to the categories--I'm not sure what they mean when I pull the menu down. Once I get there, I realize the number means the number of entries, but by that time I feel deep down into the section. Also, I'm not expecting more blog once I get that far into the site.

As a simple suggestion, perhaps there's no great need for subcategories of help--just four buttons for Print, Interactive, Software, and Technical. Subcategories could be represented with icons, or just with the breadcrumbing that's there now.

Or just redesign the whole site.

On May.15.2003 at 02:27 PM
armin’s comment is:

>One simple reason for it's neglect might be the site design.

I agree. And I have mentioned a few times too. In all honesty, the section might die soon. I appreciated Rebecca's concern, but I don't think it has a bright future. And it required lots of maintenance (if it had worked.)

>Maybe when i find the time, we could do a full blown Heuristic evaluation of the site.

Who are you calling a Heuric buddy?

What is Heuristic anyway? Never heard that before.

On May.15.2003 at 02:29 PM
griff’s comment is:

A Heuristic evaluation is to usability what a critique is to visual design.

Taking into considerations things like target audience, key user tasks, information architecture, taxonimy, nomenclature, etc.

Um, I'm not as nerdy as I sound... I wear really cool art director wire frame glasses, really.

More info at:

http://www.useit.com/papers/heuristic/

But remember, Jakob Nielsen (the author) is a little uptight and hardly a visual designer.

On May.15.2003 at 03:10 PM
rebecca’s comment is:

Griff, real designers wear these.

On May.15.2003 at 03:18 PM
armin’s comment is:

>A Heuristic evaluation is to usability what a critique is to visual design.

I see. Thanks.

>But remember, Jakob Nielsen (the author) is a little uptight and hardly a visual designer.

And hardly human.

On May.15.2003 at 03:19 PM
Christopher May’s comment is:

>> Jakob Nielsen (the author) is a little uptight and hardly a visual designer.

to associate the title 'designer' within ten feet of his name is an insult to us... and to him.

On May.15.2003 at 03:32 PM
Darrel’s comment is:

Armin:

I think the section is a great idea, but perhaps not suited to MT's capabilities.

I think a critique section could be better served using a forum type interface. (Which I imagine would also make it a lot easier for you to manage).

As for pull-downs, they have their purposes, but the biggest drawbacks to them is that they take considerable effort on the user to navigate them. They first need to click on it, then scroll to see their options, then click, then repeat the process for the next page. They're efficient in terms of real estate, but inefficient in terms of actual use.

On May.15.2003 at 04:00 PM
Sam’s comment is:

I agree, Darrel. They also somehow seem to make people feel like they're entering another dimension. Maybe people are just used to buttons--simpler affordance, simpler process to select.

And I am assuming 10 feet is a heuristically tested distance, of course.

On May.15.2003 at 08:47 PM
armin’s comment is:

>I think the section is a great idea, but perhaps not suited to MT's capabilities.

Not suited at all.

>I think a critique section could be better served using a forum type interface. (Which I imagine would also make it a lot easier for you to manage).

It probably would. But, again, I don't think a critique forum is something designers would participate in. Students maybe, but we have too many ifs and buts to worry about.

>As for pull-downs, they have their purposes, but the biggest drawbacks to them is that they take considerable effort on the user to navigate them.

Yeah, I know. But if I hadn't put them in drop downs the navigation would have taken half the page.

On May.16.2003 at 08:30 AM