Speak UpA Former Division of UnderConsideration
The Archives, August 2002 – April 2009
advertise @ underconsideration
---Click here for full archive list or browse below
The Olympians

Flying in the face of adversity, I thought it would be fun to engage in some unapologetic hero-worship. I had been thinking about the Greek Gods, and musing about various designers and wondering where they might fit in the pantheon of design gods. Who, today, is our Zeus? Who is Hades?

I couldn’t do it alone, so I teamed up with Armin. We started with a list of 50 which we had to whittle down to 12. It was very, very difficult and even between the two of us, well … I won’t say we fought, but in the final round we had to do a little horse trading (I’ll give you x if you give me y). I have no doubt that we will be lambasted and skewered for some of our choices, but that’s half the fun.

I’ve started with a basic outline of the Greek Gods, but for the purposes of this exercise I’m ignoring the confusing incestuous relationships and some of the more sordid details of their biographies and skills. I am however listing some basic relationships just to give you an idea of where and how they rank—also, if you think of them as potential designers, it’s pretty funny.

On Mt. Olympus there lived the twelve Olympians, the Dodekatheon. Descended from the Titans, they were ruled by, of course, Zeus.

Zeus, the king of the gods: supremely powerful, jealous, the god of the sky, weather and thunder; he ruled the other gods, and the world, with his lightning bolt.

Hera, the queen of the gods, wife of Zeus, protector of marriage but once responsible for a revolt against her husband. She is the most powerful of the goddesses.

Poseidon, god of the sea, Zeus’ brother and the second most powerful god. He was of a quarrelsome nature, covetous of earthly kingdoms and boasted to have created the horse, which was sacred to him.

Apollo is the son of Zeus, and is his most likely successor. He was the god of music, light and truth among other things, and despite being noble and skilled, also evoked fear and awe. The phrases “know thyself!” and “nothing in excess!” were always on his lips.

Athena was the daughter of Zeus, having hatched, full-grown—and fully armed—from his forehead. She was fierce and brave, but a protector, not an aggressor. She was the goddess of the city, handicrafts and agriculture, and was known for wisdom, reason and purity.

Ares, the son of Zeus and Hera, was disliked by both parents as well as most of the other immortals. The god of war, he loved battle for its own sake, delighting in the ransacking of villages and the slaughter of men.

Hestia, Zeus’ sister, was the protector of the family, social stability and ideals. She never took part in wars or disputes. She was also, oddly, offered the first victim of every public sacrifice.

Aphrodite, the goddess of love and beauty, was miraculously conceived and arose from the sea foam, riding to shore on a giant scallop (right, her!).

Hermes, the son and messenger of Zeus. He was the fastest of the gods with winged sandals and helmet. He was also the god of thieves and of commerce.

Artemis, Apollo’s twin sister, was the goddess of wild nature, a huntress—precocious, confident and self-sufficient.

Hephaestus, the son of Zeus and Hera, was the god of fire and the forge, and was the smith and armorer of the gods. He was ugly and lame, but kind and peace-loving.

Those are the official 12 Olympians. And then there is Hades.

Hades, the brother of Zeus and Poseidon, chose not to live on Mt. Olympus, and took instead, the underworld, ruling over the dead. A very important god, but an outsider, he seldom ventured above ground. He was also the god of wealth.

* * * * * *

OK, cut to the chase. Immediately we realized that matching personalities of the top 12 designers with the Greeks would be impossible. But we did really need to have at least a Zeus figure, a Poseidon, an Apollo and a Hades. The rest, make your own comparisons. Our gods are all living, and we eliminated those more closely associated with type design or illustration (sorry Matthew and Seymour). The six Olympian goddesses also became a problem, but we felt we couldn’t sacrifice greatness for equal opportunity, so our Mt. Olympus is dominated by men (although …).

What makes a design god? Fame + Power + Influence + Design Icons Created + Historical Significance + Longevity + “Would you be thrilled to death to sit next to each of these at a dinner table?” + “Would you put an epithet between their first and last names?” (a couple of worthy designers failed these last two tests).

So, without further ado, and with our apologies to everyone


Paula Scher: god of all gods. Rules from her domain in Pentagram, ancient house of gods and demi-gods. The powerful word is her weapon. She has been resurrected at least thrice, and her work has touched us, formed us and awed us in nearly every arena for decades. She has laid waste with Constructivism then rebuilt with a breath of life. Her hand has written on every country in the world, she is all around us.


Milton Glaser: the god of wit and colour, he is much beloved by the people and all the other immortals. He is actually one of the last of the Titans, at the height of his power and influence in the 60s and 70s. His love for his domain resulted in a worldly, lovely icon—imitated by many, surpassed by none. He holds honorary status at the head of the table. His weapons are the pen and the brush.


Stefan Sagmeister: The subversive god, god of surprises. His weapons, the pen and the pin. Despite his youth and relatively small body of miraculous works, his influence is enormous. The immortals both love and fear him. Immune to humanly tools, his body serves as a self-healing canvas. Temples to him currently outnumber any other god—for this he is also widely envied.


Bruce Mau: A massive force, briefly of the house of Pentagram, now supreme ruler of his own god-dom. The region of Zone is one of his domains. He has the magical ability to win contests he doesn’t enter. His sermon from the mount is an incomplete manifesto, his colour is black, his weapon, Life Style, a very hefty book.

Massimo Vignelli: god of the grid, master of the letterform. He is the direct ancestor to many gods and demi-gods and holds a respected place in Olympus although his temples have grown scarce among mortals. To his expertise, the City that Never Sleeps is endowed, as he deciphered and depicted its transportation maze. Legend holds it that his artillery consisted of only five single, deadly typographic cliques.

David Carson: god of chaos. Widely credited with the invention of the illegible page layout, he is worshipped as a rebel. Disliked by many of the immortals but has a huge following of fervent acolytes. His weapon is the Ray Gun (deactivated), his weakness, reliability.

April Greiman: god of juxtaposition, she wields technology as her weapon, baring her body to its power without concern for mortals’ opinion. Her hair is known to disappear at the slightest of provocations. Long revered, now Made in Space, her future is uncertain.

Peter Saville & Vaughan Oliver: Twin gods of music.
Saville, charismatic and attitudinal, teased the house of Pentagram briefly with his talent but it was not meant to be. Acerbic simplicity and urban elegance emanate from his fingertips. Music, Fashion and now a City are at his visualistic mercy.
Oliver wields the random visual fragment and has done so for the most rocking of numeral and alphabetical pairings: 4AD and v23. With a preference for the organically handmade over digitally rendered creations his following exceeds that of his British domain. Together, Saville and Oliver (along with compatriot Brody), ruled a music empire like no mortal can ever dream of.

Neville Brody: god of typographic expression. Widely acclaimed and venerated for his Face. He ignited a typographic wave with the Fuse of his deepest desires. Lord of the British during the two decades of the last millenium — and trying to regain control in the current one, despite his talk not being as mighty as his walk. Still remembered for his illustrious work for the most Macro of Medias.

Chip Kidd: god of books, his domain is the house of Knopf. Widely credited with awakening the book cover from the dead, he is a patron of photography and a bit of a visual trickster. His weapon is the visual pun, his weakness, the comic book. Cheese Monkeys shall forever haunt him as he wields his mighty pen.

Gert Dumbar: god of the avante garde. His domain is Studio Dumbar and his acolytes mostly European, with his largest temples being in Holland. A god of the cognoscenti, his work often influences through indirect routes. His magic skill is to balance sophistication with innovation. A god worthy of more sacrifice.


Rick Poynor: god of critique and wordsmithing. Not being a designer, he does not live on Mt. Olympus with the other gods, but rules instead over a kingdom of writers and critics. He gave life to the ever-watchful Eye, nurtured it to maturity then ceded its control. Presently, blogdom is his domain and observing his amusement. Mortal designers aspiring for their own deity eminence fear his decrees.

And that, my friends, ends this mythological exercise. Start crucifying.

Maintained through our ADV @ UnderConsideration Program
ARCHIVE ID 1955 FILED UNDER Miscellaneous
PUBLISHED ON May.27.2004 BY marian bantjes
graham’s comment is:

3 out of 12 isn't bad. i don't know if i'd have anyone after 1990 (too early to tell yet-or is it that there's too many after 1990 that are better than anything that's gone before? hmmm . . .).

what about a dirty dozen?

On May.27.2004 at 09:15 AM
Kiran Max Weber’s comment is:

3 out of 12 isn't bad.

Which's your third sir?

On May.27.2004 at 09:27 AM
Armin’s comment is:

Graham, this was definitely not an easy thing to do. And when we had to take into account "fame" it whittled down a lot of people that you might consider amazing designers. Being able to market oneself, live in the public eye and maintain a certain level of creativity and performance is not easy and is why it was a big part of the criteria. I read this piece by Poynor many times to see if we were doing the "right thing" here by shunning people who fueled the styles of those included in our list. But ultimately we did, so…

Not making excuses, just sharing.

On May.27.2004 at 09:28 AM
marian’s comment is:

Also, those greek gods were not all sages. Some were very young, some sprang forth from nowhere--and they were notoriously fast to mature: sucking at the tit one day, leaping across mountains the next.

I had initial reservations about some of our younger choices, but if a god isn't worshipped, they die. This isn't a list of the 12 Best, Greatest or Most Influential.

On May.27.2004 at 09:39 AM
graham’s comment is:

armin-wasn't having a go. it's a good topic-looking forward to the chat . . .

kiran: gert dumbar.

On May.27.2004 at 09:41 AM
bryony’s comment is:

I have to say this is pretty darn good. A lot of thought was put into this piece, and your conclusions and choice of words is extraordinary.

Ha! Who would of thought Zeus was a woman? I love it.

On May.27.2004 at 09:43 AM
Armin’s comment is:

Graham, yeah, I know. Just wanted to clear up our criteria… next round at the Flats is on me.

On May.27.2004 at 09:47 AM
Greg’s comment is:

Funny. And slightly disturbing at the same time. But mostly funny.


(I don't know.)

On May.27.2004 at 09:57 AM
marian’s comment is:

gert dumbar



I hope so!

On May.27.2004 at 10:01 AM
Tan’s comment is:

I bow down to your awesome list. So many dead on.

This just makes me think of all those other 38 who didn't make the cut, like Katherine McCoy, Michael Vanderbyl, Dana Arnett, Kit Hinrichs, Pat Samata, Michael Mabry, Kyle Cooper...just to name a few.

Could you share the list of runner-ups?

Btw, did you guys do this b/c of American Idol?

On May.27.2004 at 12:38 PM
Sarah B.’s comment is:

Can we see the list of 50 or so that it was widdled down from? I would like to know.

This is a great idea though, and I bet it was fun to work on. Now all we need are caricatures of these folks in these roles, and we'd be all set!!!

On May.27.2004 at 01:01 PM
Armin’s comment is:

After careful consideration the author and I have editorially decided to not unveil — yet — the runner up list. Why? We have our reasons. Will they make sense when we do unveil the list? Probably not.

The bigger question though: do these 12 designers "deserve" to be on Mt. Olympus? Yes, no? And why?

On May.27.2004 at 01:20 PM
marian’s comment is:

I think this is enough of a can of worms for one day. We wouldn't want y'all to get over fed.

On May.27.2004 at 01:21 PM
JonSel’s comment is:

How did you guys settle on a definition of "Fame" ? (And what is it?)

On May.27.2004 at 01:40 PM
Armin’s comment is:

Well, JonSel, it would be just what you would expect: How well-known and recognized is someone?

Appearances in books (including the Thames & Hudson, A Concise History of Design and A History of Graphic Design), annuals, conferences, galleries… you know, the usual. Is it a recognizable name that any designer between the age of 21 and 95 would recognize? Are they a "class assignment" (meaning that teachers make their students learn about them)? Would you recognize them in a grocery shop (a few might fail this)?

And — the ultime in fame measuring — if there was a tabloid for the graphic design profession, would photos of them sunbathing appear on the front page?

Frivolous, so frivolous.

On May.27.2004 at 02:36 PM
graham’s comment is:

should they, shouldn't they . . . hmmm . . . i think the list could be longer (probably a lot) and still not suffer. i had a go and there was one american. lacking the international knowledge i think you lot.

thank christ no kyle cooper. things would be dodgy then. carson hardly scrapes it . . . what is it, you love ersatz and fugazies over there or what?

On May.27.2004 at 03:27 PM
JonSel’s comment is:

The list definitely has an American slant to it. I was thinking there must be a Euro or two that could be added. Graham, post your suggestions!

And I asked about fame because I was curious if fame beyond our field was part of that criteria. I'm not sure it necessarily should have been, but most probably would make that jump.

On May.27.2004 at 03:35 PM
marian’s comment is:

graham, if we included who/what we love, there would be other people on this list. of course the list could be longer, but then it wouldn't be the dodekatheon. Originally I was going to have one for all the lesser gods as well, Demeter, Persephone, Eros, Dionysus, Perseus, Heracles ... but it had to end somewhere.

I'm perfectly willing to admit to a lack of internationalism, though. Over here in North America we are crushed by the weight of our own Americentrism.

I'd love to see your list.

JonSel--fame beyond our field almost doesn't exist. I asked a couple of friends if they'd ever heard of Paul Rand--nope. Saul Bass? Milton Glaser? Nope. Fuggedaboutit.

Armin, re that tabloid, let's talk.

On May.27.2004 at 03:42 PM
Armin’s comment is:

> The list definitely has an American slant to it.

5 out of 13 are Europeans.

On May.27.2004 at 03:47 PM
JonSel’s comment is:

5 out of 13 are Europeans.

I suppose I'm suggesting that the Europeans might have some designers that they feel are Olympian in nature but they haven't trickled over much to North American shores. The Europeans on the list are all famous in America (except maybe Dumbar, who I'm very happy is on the list). Are all the North Americans on the list famous in Europe?

I'm not suggesting your list sucks. I'm suggesting that it was created through North American eyes. I'd love to see Graham's list (as well as anyone else over there) because I wonder if we're missing out on some great people.

On May.27.2004 at 03:55 PM
graham’s comment is:

marian-no criticism, lovely topic, just chatting.

armin-true, true. but don't think there'd be more than 2 or 3 yankee doodles though if it was truly international (asia . . .).

is paula scher the most well-known graphic designer in the whole wide world?

On May.27.2004 at 04:07 PM
marian’s comment is:

no problem, graham, i know.

I wonder if we're missing out on some great people.

My hope for this exercise, actually, was that we--or at least I--could learn something--I would be far less interested in a tousle over Seymour Chwast than to have some designers put forward who I've never heard of.

On May.27.2004 at 04:19 PM
Armin’s comment is:

> is paula scher the most well-known graphic designer in the whole wide world?

Probably not, David Carson might be more known around the world, but we all know that if we had put DC at the top heads would roll…

On May.27.2004 at 04:21 PM
marian’s comment is:

Picking Paula Scher as Zeus was a eureka moment which Armin and I had at roughly the same time, 2,000 miles apart--he while crossing the street, me while walking through the forest. We foolishly had her pegged as Hera, but when we thought about all that she's done (the breadth as well as the depth of her work) and the number of times she's been off the podium and gets back on it again, it was just so obvious. She has all the qualities of a god, and she has them is spades, including "Ohmigod! I sat next to Paula ^&*%* Scher at the table!"

As for David Carson, I think it's pretty obvious who he is.

On May.27.2004 at 04:34 PM
graham’s comment is:

if it's open to put up our own versions i'll have a go tomorrow.

cough/tadanori yokoo/cough. what?

On May.27.2004 at 04:36 PM
marian’s comment is:

Oh, and for anyone who cares to try their hand at this, beware: it's an extremely obsessive exercise. For a week I could think of little else.

On May.27.2004 at 04:37 PM
DesignMaven’s comment is:

Initially, I posted this morning and removed my post. Reason, I thought this was something of amusement of the younger generation of Designer(s)

Didn't want to participate. You know where I'm going.

As well, noticed the American Dominance. I knew this wasn't an all-time greatest hits list.

Supposedly living Designers:

I'll post what I removed this morning as it was written.

The only Designer I can acknowledge other than Paula Scher is MASSIMO VIGNELLI.


1. VIGNELLI, emphatically stated. The only reason he came to America was SAUL BASS.

The GOD of ALL GOD'S !!!!!!

2. VIGNELLI, posses more range than any Designer Practicing Today.

Kidd, Carson, Sagemeister over Chermayeff, Chwast, Bierut, Vanderbile, Manwaring and Anderson. INTERESTING.

Jonathan Barnbrook, didn't make the cut. Very POPULAR IN EUROPE.

Also, interesting, Deborah Sussman, and Catherine McCoy didn't make the cut.

The Greatest Female Designer living I can think of is ROSMARIE TISSI whom they all BOW DOWN.

Graham's correct, if this were truly a WHO'S WHO list of today of International Scope. There would be only two or three American's if you include Asia and other Countries.

Without question, MILTON GLASER according to your list and his place in Design Hiarchy. Sits on top of MOUNT OLYMPUS as Supreme Ruler.

Glaser's been among the TOP FIVE Designer(s) to the WORLD for over FIFTY YEARS.

The TOP FIVE included, BASS, RAND, CHERMAYEFF, and BAYER until his departure into Design Heaven.

If you guys, ever get a chance. You should get your hands on a copy of PRINT MAGAZINE's

Great Graphic Designer's of the 20th Century. Collector's Item.

January/February 1969 Landmark Issue entire issue devoted to FIFTEEN DESIGN GOD's.

Definately a very strong EUROPEAN PRESENCE !!!!!

Yeah, Graham, I'm feeling the DIRTY DOZEN.

Think this discussion should relate more to Great Desigers of the 21 Century. Which will eliminate BASS and RAND. I won't Bitch and Moan. Why BASS and RAND are not included.

Gallant effort MARIAN and Armin in relating them to THE GREEK GOD's.

Also curiously absent is STEVE HELLER. Certainly, the GOD OF ALL GOD'S when it comes to Design History.

Personal Note: The list is PERSONA NON GRATA without KYLE COOPER.

On May.27.2004 at 06:01 PM
Tan’s comment is:

I too am suspect of Paula Scher's position. Incredible work and legacy, but Zeus? I'm beginning to question the fit.

>I wonder if we're missing out on some great people.

I once met the director of the International Design Center in Nagoya, JPN — and she commented that most US designers are only aware of other US designers (and some UK/European notables), while Japanese designers have a more vast awareness of Western and Eastern designers. To prove her point, she asked if I could name 5 famous Japanese designers, and of course, I couldn't. Can any of you?

Why is that? Graphic design has always been biased European/white/male — kind of like fine arts used to be. I know that has changed, but why are we not seeing more evidence of it? And in respect to the Japanese designers — is it a language barrier? Is it because we just don't see Kanji and Asian characters in the same typographic sense that we see the Roman alphabet? Same with Arabic.

Or is it because of the overwhelming prevalence/effects of American (Western) media, marketing, entertainment, branding, etc. all over the world, that's skewing our exposure to non-American (Canadian/UK/Western) graphic design and designers?

Back to the thread — why can't anyone name a design Aphrodite? Does there not exist a symbol of beauty and love in our profession? I can think of a few designers — but don't want to be accused of objectizing :-)

On May.27.2004 at 07:19 PM
DesignMaven’s comment is:


Interesting comments. Glad you took the Hero Worship to the FAR EAST.

I'll start with the naming of JAPANESE DESIGNERS:

I won't name all of them. Just an example.

Starting with Prominent Designers in AMERICA.

Number(s) one and two.


1. Rei Yoshimura, Identity Designer/Consultant.

2. Mamoru Shimokochi, Identity Designer/Consultant.

3. Yusaka Kamekura, Designer of 1964 Olympic Games, Designer of World Famous Corporate Identity for TDK.(many others.

4. Shegeo Fukuda, The leader of Visual Puns and Graphic Wit.

5. Ikko Tanaka, Posses and extroadinary range in the visual arts. Print,

3 Dimensional, Designer of the Japenese History

Pavilion 1970, Renowned Exhibition and Poster Designer.

6. Takenobu Igarashi, Author of Rock Scissors Paper, Various Books on Corporate Identity which are in my Archives.

Kick Ass Corporate Identity Designer/Consultant.

7. Motoo Nakanishi, World Renowned Identity Consultant/Designer. Owner of PAOS Identity Consultancy Japan.

Responsible for creating Corporate Identities for:

1. Bridegstone, Tires, Chemical Products, Sporting Goods. Retained Masanori Umeda, Product Designer.

2. MAZDA, retained Rei Yoshimura to create Identity.

As well, Mamoru Shimokochi submitted proposed Identities for project.

3. Kenwood Corporation, Audio Equipment.

4. Asics, Sporting Goods, retained Herb Lubalin to create Identity.

5. Kirin, Beer, Soft Drinks, retained Rei Yoshimura to create Identity.

6. Ricoh, Photocopiers, Camera's and Optical Equipment.

7. Nissay, Insurance, retained Chermayeff & Geismar to create Identity.

Just a few Identities Legendary Japanese Identity Consultancy PAOS has been involved.

I can go on an on. Name Fine Artist, Architects, Photographers etc.

Will give someone else a chance.

Anyone else!!!!!!!!!!

On May.27.2004 at 10:00 PM
marian’s comment is:

Yes, it's pretty shocking how little we know about the international designers--which is why, in this case, they don't appear. Not meaning to be all excusey, but it's hard to nominate someone for godhood when you just don't know anything about them.

Perhaps we should have stuck with Americans (seriously), just to cap it.

DM, many of the people you listed were on our short list. There was a lot of to and fro-ing on our final six. They got on, they fell off. Not even Armin and I could agree--so we knew there was no way we'd get agreement from anyone else.

As for Steven Heller ... he just doesn't seem like he belongs in the underworld.

I stand behind Scher, Glaser, Sagmeister, Vignelli, Dumbar and, yes, Carson (no matter what you--or I--may think of him I'm convinced he belongs there).

And this doesn't mean that those I haven't listed were necessarily Armin's choices--just that I'd be willing to sacrifice them.

Look at those Greeks again. They have varying skills, domains and expertise. Some are young and impetuous, some wise and fair. Although we weren't able to match distinct personalities we were trying to cover a lot of bases with our selection. The Greek Gods were notoriously flawed individuals.

And that, my dears, is the point. I didn't write a post about the 12 most important designers. I didn't bore you with that long list of gods for nothing.

But bring it on--I want to see your lists.

On May.27.2004 at 10:02 PM
marian’s comment is:

[Thanks DM--we posted at the same time, almost.]

Also, i have to say, I'm always nervous before I post, but this one ... man, changing from Draft to Publish and clicking Save was fuckin' scary. I almost backed out.

Obviously I expected to be crucified--I was surprised by the relative lack of response. Disdain? Ouch, now that hurts.

On May.27.2004 at 10:12 PM
jose’s comment is:

Btw, did you guys do this b/c of American Idol?


On May.27.2004 at 10:30 PM
graham’s comment is:

study commenced with choice of measuring mechanism. most futuristic and therefore accurate=google.

total hits from name search=how excellent and famous (and therefore good looking and attractive) designer actually is in reality.

results from greek god contest used as a control group.

where a name may have doubtful or multiple spellings results=total of possible spellings.

all this information is incontrovertible and can never be disproved as anything other than the absolute truth.

results tallied from a set of approx. 50 (ish).

figures (=hits) rounded down to nearest thousand.

in reverse order:

12) phil baines 43 000

11) peter saville 62 000

10) tibor kalman 63 000

9) mark farrow 71 000

8) bruce mau 94 000

7) malcolm garrett 113 000

6) vaughan oliver 130 000

5) michael beirut 138 000

4) kyle cooper 273 000

3) steven heller 607 000

2) david carson 906 000

1) graham wood 1 000 000

all information herein is formed from objective study and is right and completely correct.

On May.28.2004 at 04:08 AM
Armin’s comment is:

> Perhaps we should have stuck with Americans (seriously), just to cap it.

Heck, we should have done it about Greek graphic designers. How 'bout that Maven? Can you name 5 Greek designers? (I'm afraid you can though…)

On May.28.2004 at 08:59 AM
marian’s comment is:

Tibor Kalman is dead -- long live Tibor Kalman.


Graham Wood - god of sarcasm and convoluted scripture. His weapon is the tomato, which he hurls with accuracy and aplomb.

On May.28.2004 at 12:45 PM
Armin’s comment is:

…His weakness, vintage sneakers and T-shirts.

On May.28.2004 at 01:01 PM
Jose Nieto’s comment is:

Fun exercise (and nicely written, by the way). Just one questions: If Paula Scher is Zeus, does that make Seymour Chwast Hera?

On May.28.2004 at 02:59 PM
graham’s comment is:

never ever sarcastic . . . honest. forgot about the dead vs. living thing oops.

this thread has got me thinking, though-how do we judge work? as a single piece in the context of where, when and how we see it, and what it's for? or in the context of a name, a 'body' of work? stylistically? emotionally? how do each of these ways of receiving work form our opinions? are gut judgements, prejudices even, as useful as rational consideration in the light of empirical data? and how does any sense of 'community' opinion weigh on these things? this most basic of things (our sense of judgement) is taken so much for granted that perhaps it's worth examining in the light of armin and marian's list. and so, maybe either or both might want to illuminate a bit more on what they felt one, or a few of the names there, mean to them.

On May.28.2004 at 03:08 PM
ormus’s comment is:

ah, the tastemakers at work........but certainly is fun. would be great to see paula rape europa!

where are the japanese, the swiss etc.......could weingart be apollo?

On May.28.2004 at 03:51 PM
marian’s comment is:

does that make Seymour Chwast Hera?

Ask Seymour.

graham, you have a full-on post, there.

could weingart be apollo

Weingart was on the list for a long time (but never, EVER as Apollo), until I kicked him off for lacking sex appeal.











you guys never know when I'm kidding do ya?

On May.28.2004 at 04:01 PM
mGee’s comment is:

stop it with sagmeister already.

The ONLY reason this person is known is because he sliced himself up. Gimmicks are not the equivalent to talent. Especially stupid self-mutilation.

On May.28.2004 at 10:44 PM
marian’s comment is:

This topic is driving me crazy. I woke up very early this am thinking about it. You should know that our list changed several times a day in the making, and despite having posted, I feel it's not over. In the interests of pure obsession, I have prepared a defence:

Paula Scher - I've pretty much explained our decision, and I stand by it. The fact is, even the gods worship her .. *no*one disses Paula. She rules.

but her position as Zeus caused us some trouble with Milton Glaser ... to be honest, for myself, I actually don't think he belongs on this list. He *is* one of the Titans. He belongs with the old gods: Rand, Bass, Kalman ...

But he ain't dead yet, so here he is. I'm not all that happy with his position as Poseidon as it doesn't really fit. If Zeus is the god of the land and Poseidon is the god of the sea ... well then I'd love to see a Japanese designer in this position: that would fit--especially if they were to kanji what Paula is to our own written word.

Massimo Vignelli ... technically, imho, another Titan.

Sagmeister IS Apollo. This is not open for discussion with me.

I LOVE the fact that we have twin gods of music. There are a few twins in the pantheon of greek gods, and as far as music goes, I think Peter Saville and Vaughan Oliver are the right choices. But maybe ... in a list of 12, it may have been indulgent of us to have both of these. *Maybe* in the interests of an extremely worthy candidate in some other field, one of these might go. Which one, I couldn't possibly decide--how do you separate twins?

I also love the fact that we have a god of books. In North America, Chip Kidd is certainly a god of books (and I am personally very worshipful of him), but I worry about his longevity and I think it's entirely likely there's a better candidate for this--I would need to be convinced.

Bruce Mau ... now here's an interesting one. I think that I may have been fooled by his god-like nature. He seems so much like a god that for a while we thought he might be Zeus, Poseidon, or Apollo. But is it just spin? What exactly is he the god *of*? Today if Armin and I were still debating, I might advocate throwing him out of Olympus.

David Carson -- I already said it.

Gert Dumbar is on this list not because he is Dutch but because he represents what I would call the Dutch Movement (which is, again imho, hugely important and increasingly so). By this token, a case could be made for Weingart, because we do need a representative of Swiss typography. But does anyone actually worship him? Respect and admire, yes ... but worship? I wait to be convinced.

April Grieman I see as our Athena. Very important goddess ...

And I think Neville Brody is our weakest link. I'd throw him to the dogs in an instant. Oh how fickle I am ...

The listing of famous international designers that we are woefully ignorant of is instructive, but not useful. This is not "Zeuses of the World Unite," nor would I engage in tokenism--adding someone because they represent a nation, or race. My boyfriend, Dante, was very upset that there were no Italians on the list, but when I questioned him about it he failed to come up with anyone who wasn't either dead or an industrial designer.

But there are weak spots that might be filled by someone who represents a field or movement or genre, and who may or may not be non-english speaking.

Have I said enough? Can I go back to bed now?

On May.29.2004 at 09:29 AM
Jason’s comment is:

Frankly, I've had it up to my ears with the gods. I feel we need more muse and less titan. Designers are too fond of the heroes out there. So much so, that we sometimes strive to be those people, or create like those people. We need more people who inspire us to simply create, in contrast to mimicry of the Olympian's form and style.

Bring on the muses. Who are yours? And can they be of Olympian stature? Or perhaps fallen Olympians?

On May.29.2004 at 09:49 AM
graham’s comment is:

jason . . . funny you should say that-i was going to do a topic on the very same idea. want to mail me and we do a joint one?

On May.29.2004 at 11:21 AM
Rudy’s comment is:

Without wanting to say anything bad about the design gods themselves (all highly distinguished colleagues), I'm just struck by the conservatism of the choices. No real surprises at all. Very safe bets. Pretty much covering the heroes of the 70s, 80s and early 90s. And not Americacentric, as some have pointed out, but New York centric (6 out of 12). In my interview with Armin he states that "Speak Up reflects the spirit of our time and our profession." Doesn't Speak Up have its own heroes? Many of you have come to design in the early 90s. Aren't there any contemporaries you feel deserve to be placed in this pantheon of design worship? For a generation that supposedly blazed the trail of web and interactive design, is there nobody from that period that warrants inclusion? What have you all been doing the past 10 years?

On May.29.2004 at 03:32 PM
DesignMaven’s comment is:


I'm just chiming in today.

My boyfriend, Dante, was very upset that there were no Italians on the list, but when I questioned him about it he failed to come up with anyone who wasn't either dead or an industrial designer.

MASSIMO VIGNELLI is Italian. Probably doesn't count because of his American Citizenship.

Secondly, I can name many Italian Design GOD's

that should be included. At this time will not.

Most important, Any list I create will come under the same scrutiny as you and Armin.

I'll be the first to admit list are difficult to create because there's always someone that will be omitted for whatever reason.

Example, KYLE COOPER and Seymour Chwast.

Simply trying to make a case for Uncle Milti Which everyone understands.

Good Paula Scher was chosen as ZEUS. I have no problem with that for this excercise. In reality it would be Uncle Milti.

Personally, it is extremely difficult for me to

respect and acknowledge Designers that are not involved with Corporate Identity.

Everyone does print. Everyone doesn't do it well. Having said that. It is the rare individual Designer that can reduce the Elements of a Message to its Barest Essential. Encapsulating complex knowledge into simplified Visual Communication.

A Monumental Task. Not every Designer is adept

at creating Corporate Identity.

We like what we like. Identity Design is an overwhelming MEASURING STICK I use to Judge All Designers Capabilities.

If a Designer has no track record in Identity Design. I'll discard them without a second look.

By this token, a case could be made for Weingart, because we do need a representative of Swiss typography. But does anyone actually worship him? Respect and admire, yes ... but worship? I wait to be convinced.

Yes, Wolfgang Weingart is one of the most REVERED TYPOGRAPHERS of the 20th Century.

Paul Rand, revered him. April Grieman and Dan Friedman noted Corporate Identity Designer. Along with other American Students made a Pilgrimage to Allegemeine Gewerbueschule (Basel School of Design Switzerland to study

with him.

Depends what Generation you are asking.


I ain't touching the GREEK THING!!!!!!

Did I say GREEK. I meant GREECE.

I do love stuffed GRAPE LEAVES.

Kids, that's a Staple in GREECE!!!!!!!

No subliminal message encoded !!!!!

Just a cheap shot a humor.

On May.29.2004 at 08:17 PM
Ryan Pescatore Frisk’s comment is:

concerning those who helped blaze the trail of web and interactive design:

I believe that designers in great numbers had a lot to do with trail blazing. Perhaps I'm confused by the term. I would like to make a distinction between trail blazing & trial blazing, clearing paths & picking weeds. As much as we can view the weed pickers, it's those who consistently (even in an inconsistent manner) produce root uplifting work which provokes trail blazing. Not design campers, as your land is my land.

If we can create a Mount Olympus for the Design gods then surely the rules can be bent.

Are gods not immortal? Either way, the likes of Matt Owens & Josh Ulm must find a home, however remote. What happens to Jan Tschichold & Piet Zwart, etc...etc...I hope we don't think that only those still gracing the earth have had to push the hardest.

Lastly, this may be too close to home, but Catelijne & I still remember when Laurie Haycock Makela and P. Scott Makela made very big waves, which continue to alter and influence the surface today.

On May.30.2004 at 10:53 AM
Kirsten’s comment is:

I thought Bruce Mau was Captain Highliner. What's going on here?

On May.31.2004 at 05:39 PM
Shahla’s comment is:

Saints and the recently released 'Troy' seem to be on this wavelength here with your Greek mythology -at least in my mind. It would be great if this expanded to include visuals.

Could you elaborate and describe how the apple didn't fall far from the tree with Scher parenting Sagmeister?

On Jun.01.2004 at 01:10 PM
Armin’s comment is:

Sorry I haven't posted in a while to this thread. Long weekend trip.

> and so, maybe either or both might want to illuminate a bit more on what they felt one, or a few of the names there, mean to them.

I'll expound on those I feel strongly about:

Scher. Stylistically — and constructivism appropriation blaming aside — she has one of the most varied repertoires of any designer, and she does all of them great. In as many disciplines of design as possible: from hand-drawn posters to aluminum die-cut facades. And she was the first woman to join Pentagram's boys club. It takes talent, courage and (excuse my vulgarity) big balls. Oh, and she's smart.

Glaser. Not much reasoning really. He is simply great.

Sagmeister. [First person to mention "Armin has a man-crush" gets his/her ass banned from Speak Up, OK?]. Contrary to mGee's opinion, Sagmeister is talented. Saying that all he's relevant for is for slicing himself up is short-sighted. His breadth of work and styles goes beyond the occasional x-acto (which he's only done twice). His annual report for a lighting company is brilliant as well as two of his catalogs for Anni Kuan. I'd like to see him do some logos and identities though.

Mau. Don't have a strong opinion about him.

Vignelli. Class act, impossible to ignore.

Carson. Whatever people say about him, he made the most public mark in design. Did he copy the hard work and brilliance of other individuals before him? Sure. Were those individuals able to do what he did in terms of notoriety, influence and longevity? No. The art of self-promotion is fucking hard, and it takes other sets of talents that most people don't have, that's why — because of their popularity and vast public perception — so many of the choices seem safe.

Greiman. Her work makes me uncomfortable. And that's a good thing.

Saville. I'm not a huge, huge fan but he has the ability to create edgy elegance. He has that touch.

Oliver. I mean, c'mon.

Brody. Stylistically, he's a huge influence for me.

Kidd. Even if he's prowess is limited to book covers, I wish I had such limitations. A lot of times I see his work initially and I'm underwhelmed but after a while it becomes stronger and more effectual. It has longevity.

Dumbar. I have been following his work since I learned about him in my second year of college. Mind blowing. The stuff he did for the Dutch (was it the Dutch?) Police? Amazing!

Poynor. Dude can write.

> I'm just struck by the conservatism of the choices. No real surprises at all. Very safe bets.

I don't think we set out to be surprising or unconservative. We agreed on the formula and applied it. Not sure if it was coincidence that those we chose are "obvious" or that we were subliminally predetermined to choose them.

> Aren't there any contemporaries you feel deserve to be placed in this pantheon of design worship?

With the "formula" many of the contemporaries don't have a place in it. Not to hide behind the formula but if we had done something like: Trend Setting + Being at the right place at the right time + Learning the technology while others bitched about it = Design God. Then maybe we could have started to consider Juxt, WWFT, etc. and all those interactive trail blazers. Their longevity and relevance is still to be determined — if they have any at all. The only one I would have thought of including in our original list is Hillman Curtis, his work is not as "cutting edge" as that of other contemporaries but his work and his ideas have influenced many… I certainly haven't been influenced by any interactive trail blazer's take on design.

In a bigger-picture, completely personal list I would have included others like the Makelas, Chris Ware, Rick Valicenti, Scott Clum and other less popular vote-getters.

On Jun.01.2004 at 03:34 PM
Tan’s comment is:

>I certainly haven't been influenced by any interactive trail blazer's take on design.

That's because interactive design, in large part, is less about design, and more about technology and the marketing of a solution to problems that doesn't yet exist. Web work is mostly impermanent, non-substantial, and for new technology — amazingly derivative.

I think Rudy's question is valid — what the hell have we been doing this past decade?

I think we've been spending our time chasing the buck (dot-com), chasing our identity (interactive vs. print vs. branding), chasing brand makeovers (UPS, Xerox, UW, etc.), chasing technology (and piracy, virtual intellectual property), and struggling to manage our size and growth potential as a profession.

I've seen little of completely new, original voices in our profession that's been developed in this past decade. I've seen lots of retro. Lots of good work. But not a lot of Olympians.

But if you look at classical music — a large majority of masterworks were composed w/i the span of about 200 years, and then ended around the time of Rachmaninoff and Gershwin in the 1920-30s. Nothing comparable has been produced since. It doesn't mean there's been a lack of talent or productivity. Something just shifted.

Maybe graphic design is in a similar shift. Let's hope it's temporary.

On Jun.01.2004 at 04:57 PM
graham’s comment is:

incase the right funny joke of my google hyperstars wasn't clearly funny enough, i'll do a proper serious one which is in no particular order except maybe it would be fun to speculate who would survive if a film was made where they all came together to save a village from bandits or something.

joint 1st) peter blake and jamie reid.

there being no particular virtue in longevity or consistency, particularly if you consistently churn out bland tat for a longevitous time, these two do it for one image each; blake for sgt. pepper and reid for god save the queen. you can't think of two more culturally earth shattering images. so don't try.

3) peter saville.

james bond. jason king. bryan ferry. bowie. quite literally nobody does it better.

4) gert dumbar.

there would have been no graphic design after 1986 without this man.

5) wim crouwel.

the fucking brazil (pele) of graphics.

6) stanley green.

i would see him almost every day when i was college. inspired thousands.

7) vaughn oliver.

shows us how design can be a window into other worlds redolent of arcane forces, memories, moments lost in time among the discarded remnants of experience and understanding of which we can only perceive traces that are fading, slowly fading, evaporating, forgotten tears, wishes.

joint 8) phil baines and jon barnbrook.

war of the roses. north and south. stone vs. stone, one utters, one rhymes. baskerville and garamond. the lennon and mccartney of typography. sort of.

10) tadanori yokoo.

having reached a climax at the age of 29, i was dead.

joint 11) yugo nakamura/john maeda.

style and idea. but in the way schoenberg thought about style and idea.

lucky 13) brian eno.

that bloke can think. oblique strategies.

thus that is my list. it has already changed.

On Jun.01.2004 at 05:18 PM
marian’s comment is:

incase the right funny joke of my google hyperstars wasn't clearly funny enough

it WAS funny, graham. I did laugh ... just forgot to write it down, but attempted to be funny back.

Thanks for posting a list. Now that's great ... many surprises, but much for me to ponder.

On Jun.01.2004 at 06:39 PM
Michael Surtees’s comment is:

A while back in one of Design Maven's history classes he dropped the name Joe Finocchiaro. The symbols and logos that Joe has touched are worthy of being titled Zeus - he's unreal.

On Jun.03.2004 at 11:55 AM
JonSel’s comment is:

Joe Finocchiaro

Joe's work is quite incredible. I'm not sure how well known he is outside of NY and SanFran. All the branding agencies use him around NYC. I've only worked with him once, some time ago, although he worked on a number of Landor projects while I was there. I wouldn't put him in the Creative Genius category as I'd reserve that for those that produce consistently great conceptual work, but definitely at the top of the Master Craftsmen. He has one of the most skilled drawing hands and a great eye for form.

On Jun.03.2004 at 05:34 PM
Armin’s comment is:

What I've heard about him too is that he's the equivalent of an awesome closing pitcher. He does a lot of refinement in the final stages of an already "designed" logo. Many of the projects on his site say "Refine Concept and create final electronic art". Not that that diminishes at all the work, as all of it looks very polished.

On Jun.03.2004 at 06:46 PM
Jason’s comment is:


Johan Gutenberg


Beatrice Warde


Wolfgang Weingart


Tibor Kalman


Lucille Tenazas


Vaughn Oliver


DK Holland


April Greiman


Paul Rand


Paula Scher


Michael Bierut


David Carson

On Jun.04.2004 at 12:57 AM
marian’s comment is:


a) Dead People

b) Who you callin' ugly and lame?

On Jun.04.2004 at 01:05 AM
Michael Surtees’s comment is:

awesome closing pitcher

Maybe I was a bit extreme in my classification, however to be associated and having helped designed some amazing marks is pretty extrodinaire.

On Jun.04.2004 at 07:49 AM
rudy’s comment is:

Graham, you gotta be kidding! Dumbar is Pele, Crouwel is Beckenbauer.

On Jun.04.2004 at 12:44 PM
Tan’s comment is:

Graham — back to your list. The serious one.

With the exception of 4 (NL), 5 (NL), and 10 (US) — all of your other Olympians are from the UK. I don't disagree w/ many of your choices, but just wanted to point out that it's as biased as the list originally posted by the Wondertwins. Only your list is UK-centric.

My point is that, apparently, the sphere of influence for the industry seems to be revolving largely around the US and the UK right now. And the rest of the world seems to be homogenizing its design around those 2 spheres.

Where are the French Olympians, or Spanish, Egyptian, Italian, South African, Mexican, Chinese, Brazilian, etc.? I just looked through the most recent Print 2004 European Design Annual, and I swear it all looks as if it came from either NY, London, or SF. Lots of good work, but all derivative of work from the US or UK.

Is our profession's international design "dialect" that bereft and obtuse?

And if that's the case, then what was the whole point of criticizing the list as being Americentric in the first place? Isn't that the reality of things?

On Jun.04.2004 at 01:07 PM
Frank’s comment is:

Beckenbauer? Pele?

Crouwel is Cruijff!

On Jun.04.2004 at 01:31 PM
marian’s comment is:

Indeed. I'm with Frank.

If we're mixing the living and the dead, the gods and the heroes, the immortal and the mortal, it would be appropriate to keep nationalities and personalities parallel.

Bring on your Thors and Mohammeds and Selassies! Who is the Dalai Lama of design? And don't forget to vote for Christ.

the Wondertwins

Armin, you wanna take this one?

On Jun.04.2004 at 02:57 PM
Armin’s comment is:

> Armin, you wanna take this one?

I dunno, I kinda like the wondertwins thing… but if you don't, I'll deal with Tan later.

>Who is the Dalai Lama of design?

Good question! Now we are getting somewhere…

On Jun.04.2004 at 03:10 PM
marian’s comment is:

but if you don't, I'll deal with Tan later

heh, heh. I just thought it needed a snappy rejoinder and couldn't think one up myself, at the time. How's this:

I suppose that makes us Apollo and Artemis.

On Jun.04.2004 at 03:57 PM
graham’s comment is:

tan-in a way the main point of my response was that (although 10 and 11 are from japan, and i was going to put toscani and pierre bernard (grapus) in there) this is a very personal thing-the list of people would, for me, be in constant flux and i don't believe for a moment you could have, want or need a somehow permanent one. it might be that people in most countries would weight towards their own or near neighbours as a matter of course; i know that in trying to do this and stand for the choices, the addition of a couple of other nationalities all started to feel a bit arbitrary, a bit we are the world. maybe have a go at one where every person is from a different country?

anyway u.k. design is better than u.s. design.

dalai lama-good one. i think anyone who responds to this might be on the way.

On Jun.04.2004 at 04:17 PM
graham’s comment is:

to tans point, had a go. in the end goes to show the infinite varieties of form this kind of list could take.

rana salam (lebanon)

fernando guittierez (spain)

alexandre wollner (brazil)

miguel hernandez (chile)

stylewar (sweden)

kim hiorthoy (norway)

roman ciezlewicz (poland)

yu bingnan (china)

phillipe apeloig (france)

ryan mcginness (u.s.)

miles murray sorrel fuel (u.k.)

saki mafundikwa (zimbabwe)

the last has written an interesting article here.

On Jun.04.2004 at 05:15 PM
tuan’s comment is:

the new gods

the young gods

the teen titans

allen hori

martin venezsky

rudy vanderlans

why not associates


stephen farrell

number 17

denise gonzales crisp

anne burdick

jonathan barnbrook

ed fella

the makelas

lupton miller

vaughan oliver

irma boom

mevis + van deursen

...have created boxes that i've opened or want to open.

these people can step up and throw down.

the intricacies and beauty of typography.

oh so tasty type.

original form making.

no art directed new york big idea design one liners.

no big time design corporate consultation branding crap.

i'm talking: down on the page nitty gritty.

gorgeous typefaces, flyers, liner notes, posters, magazines, books...

the only design "idea" man i would count is edward tufte. he brings game. in those certain kinds of projects there is no better guiding light than mr tufte.

i do not have any of the design relics of paula, milton, stefan, bruce, massimo, david, april, peter or neville (i have an issue of speak, but just b/c i though venezsky did it). that mau, sagmeister book you see on my shelf was a graduation gift, i doubt i would have bought them with my own cash. i don't read any of the zone books, and don't listen to any of those musicians. i wouldn't buy a book for it's cover. only b/c of frank miller and david mazzuchelli, i do love batman (the photography of geoff spears and the chris ware insert didn't hurt either) . i do sometimes wish i was born in the netherlands.


On Jun.04.2004 at 05:24 PM
Tan’s comment is:

>started to feel a bit arbitrary, a bit we are the world

Graham — I agree w/ you there. I was just acknowledging the fact that as great as design is around the world, and as much as we'd like to understand and appreciate more Japanese/Asian designers — the design world does sort of revolve around Western culture and the US/UK dominance.

>anyway u.k. design is better than u.s. design.

yes, but we have better teeth and better tv :-)

On Jun.04.2004 at 05:40 PM
Lorraine Wild’s comment is:

"Keep the inconsistencies inconsistent"

The Dalai Lama?

No....Edward Fella.

On Jun.04.2004 at 06:06 PM
Feluxe Socksmell’s comment is:


OK, you are from Texas. Me too. Gotta

ask: did you attend Liberty Jr High School

in Dallas? I knew a guy named Tuan Phan who was a very good friend even though he wore Jordache ball crusher jeans and hung out with Lee Gatlin.

Sorry to break up the Olympic shinannigans.

Anything list without Craig Frazier, Christoph Niemann and Brian Cronin is worthless.

On Jun.04.2004 at 06:11 PM
Tan’s comment is:

>I just thought it needed a snappy rejoinder

I'm hoping you guys watched Superfriends as kids, or else you won't get this.

(Armin and Marian): Wondertwins power, activate!

(Marian): Make me into an eagle!

(Armin): Turn me into a pail of water!


...you two are perfect. But what's with the monkey?

On Jun.04.2004 at 06:12 PM
Feluxe Socksmell’s comment is:


also Fred Woodward... forgotten genuis.

On Jun.04.2004 at 06:13 PM
marian’s comment is:

Anything list without Craig Frazier, Christoph Niemann and Brian Cronin is worthless.

OK, so, uh ...

Juan Manuel Fangio, Alberto Ascari, Tazio Nuvolari, Jim Clark, A.J. Foyt, Graham Hill, Jackie Stewart, Ayerton Senna, Michael Schumacher, Craig Frazier, Christoph Niemann, Brian Cronin


But what's with the monkey?

Once again I must defer to my esteemed ... er ... twin on this one. (On all of it, really.)

On Jun.04.2004 at 06:36 PM
Tan’s comment is:

>Graham Hill.. Ayrton Senna, Michael Schumacher

I'm impressed Marian! Never pegged you for an F1 aficionado. Don't forget Probst, Mansell, Andretti, and Lauda.

On Jun.04.2004 at 07:10 PM
Armin’s comment is:


> dalai lama-good one. i think anyone who responds to this might be on the way.

"many years of Pagemaker necessary" ?!?!

Somebody needs some enlightenment.


Feluxe, good call on Woodward.

On Jun.04.2004 at 08:44 PM
debbie millman’s comment is:

no big time design corporate consultation branding crap

oh please.

On Jun.04.2004 at 09:01 PM
tuan’s comment is:


lorriane wild

gail swanlund

rebeca mendez

barry deck

geoff kaplan

phil baines

nick bell



(feluxe: more like houston, tx, clear lake high then to u of h, i'm a cougar like tan)

(sorry debbie: just tryin to be vitriolic. defining graphic design beyond logo or identity design. i'll admit i'm not a big fan of rand and his clan. in my head i'll remember them for some of their marks and some of their "witty" book or magazine covers but not the glorious typographical layout of the interiors.)

On Jun.04.2004 at 09:29 PM
Deanna’s comment is:

This list is great! Paula Scher as Zeus is so perfect, if surprising. I was certain that Milton would be blessed with that honor. Although I see David Carson more in the role of Pan, I'm glad he's included.

On Jun.05.2004 at 10:31 AM
Rudy’s comment is:

Pele, Cruyff, Dumbar - alive, imaginative, surprising, versatile...

Crouwel, Beckenbauer - somber, regimented, predictable, limited...

On Jun.05.2004 at 11:58 AM
Frank’s comment is:

Cruijff: Totaalvoetbal ('Total Soccer')

Crouwel: Total Design

I rest my case.

On Jun.05.2004 at 12:26 PM
Frank’s comment is:


Totaalvoetbal was Cruijff's philosphy. A form of modular, grid-like football. Soccer modernism.

On Jun.05.2004 at 12:31 PM
Rudy’s comment is:

Son of a b...

On Jun.05.2004 at 12:35 PM
Frank’s comment is:

Nevermind Rudy.

You're the Gullit of design.

Rudy Gullit.

On Jun.05.2004 at 12:51 PM
Jason’s comment is:

Dead people? Sorry, Marian. Looks like I got carried away with my listing without reading the post in detail. Still, some of the people I've listed are dead in a manner of speaking.

On Jun.05.2004 at 02:29 PM
graham’s comment is:

but crouwel's done the lot . . . ever seen the picture of him in the mad spacesuit thing? 60's-70's. i'll stick with pele-those curves, spiralling and dancing across the field to bang it right in the back of the net.

storm thorgerson-george best.

On Jun.05.2004 at 03:04 PM
veronika’s comment is:


If by any chance you have any contact information for Vaughan Oliver (phone, email, fax, etc) can you please let me know.

I'm a senior student and i'm doing a project about Mr. Oliver but i cannot find an email address for him or a phone # in England.



On Nov.30.2004 at 03:10 PM