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Poster Voting is Now Open

After arduous, long hours of work at Speak Up Headquarters all one hundred and fifty one (151) submitted posters are ready to be ogled at and voted upon until Sunday, October 3rd at 11:59 PM EST. Depending on the voting results, the first winner could be announced as early as Monday, October 4th.

The response was overwhelming to say the least and extremely satisfactory. We are very happy to see that everybody worked hard on the poster, went through the trouble of getting permission after scouting over 20,000 comments from Speak Up. But most of all we are so glad to see how everybody got into the spirit, shared their words with other (probably unknown) designers around the world and made this contest happen.

Enough sentimentalism, right?

OK, since there are so many entries we needed to condense them for easier viewing, hopefully our Voting Den will score decently in usability. There are three pages with 60 posters per page and a fourth page where you will submit your vote — you can only vote once.

For those of you who have small screens at low resolutions, we recommend viewing the entries through the pop-up window.

View:

1. Normal window 2. Pop-up window

That’s it! Go vote!

And thanks again for all your work!

Maintained through our ADV @ UnderConsideration Program
ENTRY DETAILS
ARCHIVE ID 2090 FILED UNDER Speak Up Announcements
PUBLISHED ON Sep.27.2004 BY Bryony & Armin
WITH COMMENTS
Comments
pedro’s comment is:

Congrats to you both!!!!

And to Speakup for pulling such a crowd!!!!

May the best one win!!!!

On Sep.27.2004 at 08:25 AM
unnikrishna menon damodaran’s comment is:

150 posters!

my first vote from saudi arabia!

done!

long live poster democracy!!!

well done Armin & Bryony

On Sep.27.2004 at 08:41 AM
vibranium’s comment is:

wow. impressive. well done chaps. lots of work went into that obviously. wow. okay...

wow.

On Sep.27.2004 at 09:32 AM
agrayspace’s comment is:

Major kudos to Speak Up and all of the designers. This is a very strong showing. Bravo!

On Sep.27.2004 at 09:38 AM
jo’s comment is:

Oh my land, it's scary to see how good they all are... but exciting too!

On Sep.27.2004 at 09:43 AM
ps’s comment is:

wow,

what a success. congrats to all participants. quite an impressive showing. and for those who put them all up, nice work. thank you.

On Sep.27.2004 at 09:49 AM
Armin’s comment is:

Oh… please refrain from voting for your own poster. (Yeah, you know who you are, please re-vote).

On Sep.27.2004 at 09:50 AM
Jason T.’s comment is:

Cheers. A well-rounded group of entries, and well done too. Interesting to see variations on some of the same quotations. I can't wait to see what comes of the voting. Yes, long live poster democracy.

On Sep.27.2004 at 09:52 AM
DesignMaven’s comment is:

I'm now inspired. I'm in AWE !!!

Believe it or not. Actually, my first looksee.

Maybe a little intimidated.

Perhaps better Time Management would've allowed me...

Cop Out, of course.

Great work and Inspirational.

Hind Sight is ...

There's always next year !!!!!!!

Armin and Byrony; you guys should be licking your chops !!!!!!

On Sep.27.2004 at 09:55 AM
Anthony’s comment is:

hot damn, lotsa good posters came out of the woodwork before the deadline. Honestly I was counting on my own vote but guess I'm out of the running now, but thass alright, there are a lot of posters there that kick rump. Way to go speakUp.

On Sep.27.2004 at 10:07 AM
cchs’s comment is:

I have to say, I'm a little disappointed in the work overall. I hesitate to say it for fear of being branded as one of these people who never has anything nice to say (so let me say now that there are two or three very nice submissions amongst the group). I'm continually impressed by the quality and thoughtfulness of the ideas posted on SpeakUp, so its sad to see the quality of poster designs falling short of those expectations.

Am I the only one who thinks so?

On Sep.27.2004 at 10:19 AM
Anthony’s comment is:

I'm continually impressed by the quality and thoughtfulness of the ideas posted on SpeakUp, so its sad to see the quality of poster designs falling short of those expectations.

Remember that a whole lot of these, most likely the majority, were made by students like myself. On the whole, they were imaginative, ambitious, colorful, energetic, and sharp. In me own opinion. Maybe I'm a design slut. I'll go with just about any poster. I can only speculate as to one's happiness as a designer and viewer if they dislike all but 2 or 3 entries from the contest.

I prefer a spectacular wreck to a ho-hum success any day.

On Sep.27.2004 at 10:30 AM
szkat’s comment is:

i think a lot of them were somewhat immature, not in the fart-joke sense, but in the could have been more thought out and simplified sense. i tend to immediately over-design, throw out everything, and then the real expression emerges on the second, simplified try. many of these look like my first try.

but i shouldn't say anything. i didn't submit b/c i didn't get to the second try :) and i do think that there are more than 2-3 keepers in the bunch! i'd say there were probably ten i really didn't go for at all. but the rest are quirky and fun. i was especially interested by, like Jason T, the variations on the same quotes. i don't support only liking three out of 150 (what are those odds? 0.02% success?!?), but you're welcome to your opinion. that's the beauty of Speak Up, you know :) and cheers to that.

On Sep.27.2004 at 10:40 AM
DesignMaven ’s comment is:

cchs’s

As Armin Vit's Personal Body Guard and Right Hand Man.

HOW FREAKIN DARE YOU!!!!! To Make Such Comments!!!!

Did you contribute a Poster ???!!!!!

If you did not. Praise the People that did.

Whom took time from their own personal schedules to compete.

BTW, Dissing People on Speak Up is relegated to one person. Whom has earned the right.

The High Priest himself Felix Sockwell !!!!!!!

On Sep.27.2004 at 10:46 AM
David Weinberger’s comment is:

I think everyone here that submitted work should be commended for taking their personal time and energy and putting themselves out there for all of Speak Up to criticize and hopefully admire. Having Speak Up judge your work is not easy. It can be frightening.

Am I the only one who thinks so?

The posters are great. They have been submitted by students and professionals, In-house and boutique designers, Principals and Juniors. These 151 posters reflect that. Posters are not easy and if we have come up with 3 or 4 really, really good or even great ones, well that is a success. Are they all great? No. Are they all horrible? No. That's OK because I can pick up any design annual and say the same thing. I definitely did not have to agonize over finding a few posters that I liked and deciding on which one I thought was best. Great work all.

On Sep.27.2004 at 10:49 AM
danielle’s comment is:

I was very pleased to see the results. I think the neatest part of the whole competition was that each designer found something that mattered to them -- a thought, an idea -- put their heart into it, and allowed it to be posted here for everyone to see. They wanted to touch somebody with their work, their opinion on what matters in design; surely it's not expected that they will all be appreciated.

Personally, I'd love to see the number of votes for each poster once the voting on all 4 posters is complete. I'd like to know if everyone feels the same way I do on the ones I almost voted for as well as the ones I definitely wouldn't have ...and, yes, I'm curious to see where my own fit in.

Remember that a whole lot of these, most likely the majority, were made by students...

Some of them were obviously entry-level work, but even those impressed me far more than much of the student work that was being churned out of my school in years past. How rewarding it is to participate in such an assignment! I'm sure they will all have learned much from the experience and from their peers' posters in terms of theory, talent, and execution.

Way to go all of you! Best wishes with the voting results!

On Sep.27.2004 at 10:52 AM
laura’s comment is:

Wow.

Out of 151, I thought I'd have a problem voting, but there was one that was so beautiful...

On Sep.27.2004 at 11:16 AM
agrayspace’s comment is:

While I wish to remain positive and encouraging (especially to the student contributors), I will admit there are about 10-15 submissions that I believe are of a high enough quality to be printed and offered for sale. But those examples are really damn fine.

Only seeing 2 or 3 is a little snooty. But high standards is what good design is all about. Subjectivity is a bitch.

On Sep.27.2004 at 11:18 AM
Feluxe Socksmell’s comment is:

Wow.

Beautiful work all around.

Sure beats the LogoPatSmackdown 4!

So what happens now?

On Sep.27.2004 at 11:28 AM
Armin’s comment is:

I have to openly admit that I was very impressed with the overall quality of the submissions. On the T-shirt contest, on the other hand, I was very dissapointed with the submissions, except for the winning entry.

Christopher, I'm not sure what you were expecting… obviously you were expecting something better, which is good because it raises the bar, specially when you voice such an opinion. I was not expecting posters that would rival those of James Victore or Art Chantry, and in all honesty that wasn't really the purpose of the contest. But I don't want to be all praisy either, I do think there are a lot of posters that could use a lot of work, but I'm sure the creators of those will benefit from seeing their work paired up against the rest.

Like, I said, I am very, very pleased. And I'm not easy to please. I would probably print 10 or 15 from the submissions.

On Sep.27.2004 at 11:36 AM
Aaron’s comment is:

I see 2 or 3 that are good. Everyone absolutely should be commended for their efforts. Especially Speak Up, not bad for a first contest. I am only disappointed more groups of designers or agencies didn't submit, I'm assuming. Perhaps that will change next year and the bar will be raised.

I did submit. Not to lecture, but to those who didn't subimit, just remember it's easy to criticize, but it takes effort to create. So, walk the walk, then talk all you want.

On Sep.27.2004 at 11:39 AM
Rick’s comment is:

1. Wow. My brain is about to explode - christopher's comments notwithstanding, there is a bunch of amazing work on there. I'm amazed. And thrilled!

2. Armin / Byrony: it's a shame that some of these won't make it as posters. There are more than four that I would want to have. Any chance of doing some kind of print-on-demand or something? Or put them in a book?

3. Thanks again. This was incredible.

On Sep.27.2004 at 11:46 AM
Tan’s comment is:

For such a non-restrictive and free design contest — the overall level of submissions is much better than could've been expected. Very impressive.

I agree w/ Vit — there are 10-15 submissions that could be printed and sold right now. Compared to the average juried design show, this is actually a very high percentage of commendable work.

Good effort everyone.

On Sep.27.2004 at 11:51 AM
Bryony’s comment is:

It is wonderful to see that students and professionals alike made an effort to create and participate in this contest, and be open to opinions, and scrutiny by fellow designers. Great or mediocre, just so-so or kick-ass, each poster represents what a fellow designer finds to be important, and it gives us all the opportunity to agree or disagree.

Some great entries will keep us talking, but let us not forget what we all learn from understanding mistakes and from being criticized by our peers.

On Sep.27.2004 at 11:57 AM
Tan’s comment is:

While everyone's voting, can we have a little fun and count the common trends and elements used?

1. Number of hammers used — 2

2. Number of instances of animals/insect — 11 (3 bunnies, 1 sheep, 1 cow, 1 pig, 1 bird(s), 1 butterfly, 1 crab, 1 rat, 1 dog)

3. Barcodes — 3

4. Syringes — 3

5 Snowflakes — 2

Any others? What are the odds on such random objects?

Ok, ok, I'm going back to work...

On Sep.27.2004 at 12:26 PM
Tan’s comment is:

Damn, I miscounted — it's 12 animals/insect. I missed the giant cockroach.

On Sep.27.2004 at 12:32 PM
szkat’s comment is:

one idea for promoting the posters is to follow the example of the AIGA Get Out the Vote CTA campaign - make all posters available as a PDF download, so then people can get copies of what they want and the winners can still be recognized and awarded by the voting...

On Sep.27.2004 at 12:37 PM
szkat’s comment is:

ps. Tan, if you want to see some seriously overused themes, go check out Threadless. they're a tee shirt company that takes submissions, lets everyone vote and criticize, and then prints those that score best.

but you'll join, start scoring... then see girls, birds, guns, dripping, and a host of other things that lose their appeal after you see them thirty or so times.

but then you hit one that's like, amazing, and makes the search worthwhile. it's tons of fun :)

On Sep.27.2004 at 12:42 PM
Pesky Illustrator’s comment is:

Tan says: Damn, I miscounted — it's 12 animals/insect. I missed the giant cockroach.

Gee, Tan, that wasn't a giant cockroach that was a GIANT GADFLY! Sheeeesh! I follow my own drummer, as the saying goes.... LOL

There are about 5 - 10 posters I wouldn't mind owning....

On Sep.27.2004 at 12:55 PM
Rob ’s comment is:

Armin and Byrony: FIrst and foremost, you are to be congratulated on the fact that this contest inspirted 151 people to put in the extra hours and work to create some fabulous work.

I think success should be measured in the response and that people took the time to do the work. I would have as well, had I not been busy with too much work. But certainly there are those posters that are good and those that are not quite so. Isn't that true of most design and is anyone really suprised. Especially with students, who are just beginning to learn the craft. I think everyone is to be congratulated on their efforts and may the poster with the most votes win.

On Sep.27.2004 at 01:27 PM
Tan’s comment is:

>Tan, if you want to see some seriously overused themes..and a host of other things that lose their appeal after you see them thirty or so times.

I didn't mean to say that any themes were being overused — just having a little fun looking at the stuff common in some of the posters. Really, how can you not?

So don't read anything more into it than that...

>that was a GIANT GADFLY!

Of course, my error on insect species. Still freaky though.

On Sep.27.2004 at 01:30 PM
szkat’s comment is:

YIPES i didn't mean to say that either. i'm so, so sorry to anyone who took offense. i didn't find anything, or mean to portray anything in the contest as unappealing. that was a dig at the sumbissions for threadless, not the poster contest.

i understood what you meant, Tan, and I meant only to bring up another venue that has some repitition of seemingly arbritrary forms.

open mouth, enter foot. sorry about that.

On Sep.27.2004 at 01:52 PM
cchs’s comment is:

Fair enough, Armin, David, et, al. I agree that there are some good ideas that are poorly executed, and some very compelling executions for which (for me) the concept falls a little short. Maybe I just have unreasonably high expectations.

Hell, I'm not sure I'd print my own submission.

I guess I'm just trying to prod the discussion a little bit. It's great that we're all so enthusiastic about everyone's efforts, but just patting each other on the back doesn't move anything forward.

Armin, I assume these 151 also include the judges 4 selections, or no? What were their overall impressions of the submissions?

On Sep.27.2004 at 01:54 PM
Rick’s comment is:

While everyone's voting, can we have a little fun and count the common trends and elements used?

The need to organize, categorize, make lists, define:

A trait common to all designers?

Discuss.

On Sep.27.2004 at 01:58 PM
Pesky Illustrator’s comment is:

Yikes, Tan! I knew you were being lighthearted about your counting similarities. So was I. Freaky?? Yeah, I suppose so, but you haven't been in Louisiana lately....bugs here have license plates like Buicks...

On Sep.27.2004 at 02:00 PM
Greg’s comment is:

Holy crap. I thought my poster was good until I looked at the competition...I think I may be one of the "good idea, poor execution" submissions. I need work.

Then again, as one of the posters (not mine) says, "The grass is always greener..."

On Sep.27.2004 at 02:02 PM
Armin’s comment is:

> but just patting each other on the back doesn't move anything forward.

Definitely. You did good in voicing your concern. What we can probably do is have some sort of "critique" once the voting is over and people can say "I did 056, what do you think?".

> Armin, I assume these 151 also include the judges 4 selections, or no? What were their overall impressions of the submissions?

Actually, we are doing this (the online voting) first. In a week, week and a half, the judges will get all the entries without the top vote-getter so that they can't choose it as a winner. So they haven't seen all this stuff.

> Any chance of doing some kind of print-on-demand or something? Or put them in a book?

We are considering various options. If we were to make posters downloadable in PDF form we would need to get consent from everybody. Same goes for a little book, which I would really like to do. But who knows.

On Sep.27.2004 at 02:03 PM
Tan’s comment is:

Ok, ok, back to the not-intended-to-be-an-insult lists.

6. This is sort of related to an earlier thread . How many instances of Gill Sans do you see? I only count 2, including one about Gill Sans itself. Where are all of the Gill Sans lovers, huh? huh?

Not seeing any Frutiger either...

On Sep.27.2004 at 02:23 PM
agrayspace’s comment is:

It might even more valuable to have a critical discussion before the identities are revealed. Less timidity around possibly offending people. Any body willing to say which ones are hitting both the conceptual and visual home runs?

On Sep.27.2004 at 02:29 PM
graham’s comment is:

Any body willing to say which ones are hitting both the conceptual and visual home runs?

in the name of positibibivity okay here's two i liked- the type one with bigger and bigger type (no.20 i think) which i think purely in terms of rendering a quote does the job simply (but curlily-i.e. simple not necessarily simple) and effectively without punning or illustrating (which is always nasty) and the one of debbies quote (can't find number) towards the end with the clarendon and the trees-nice textures, image and word as one, feels like its inside the paper rather than just on it. a decent couple of things.

On Sep.27.2004 at 02:53 PM
Tan’s comment is:

For those students who submitted posters for class, I'm curious — did you see and crit your work as a class before you submitted? Were there any directions or parameters from your instructor beyond the rules set by Armin? For example, could you only use certain typefaces, iconography, etc? What are some of the guidelines of designing a poster that you learned?

Like Graham's poignant observation that type and image should complement one another, that visual depiction of an image is not necessarily a concept, and so forth. Beyond typography and color schemes, I think these types of insights are extremely valuable as we start critiquing the work.

On Sep.27.2004 at 03:41 PM
Pink’s comment is:

The only requirements for the class was to follow the Speakup rules, though we did have a crit beforehand to refine the posters.

And now seeing everyone else's submissions, I'm thinking I probably should have worked another 59208323 billion hours on mine. *weeps* Ah well, it's a learning experience. :P

On Sep.27.2004 at 04:52 PM
Rick’s comment is:

Pink: Don't be so quick to shrug.

I expect a lot of the student entries will teach us a thing or two.

On Sep.27.2004 at 05:22 PM
vibranium’s comment is:

crap. I can't decide. There is no...no hands-down winner. If I could ker n this one. Tweak that one. What am I voting for anyway??? ARGGGGGHHHHHHhhh...

Okay, I will check in again tomorrow. Blind. 151?? 1 out of 151??????

Well done folks....

On Sep.27.2004 at 08:34 PM
laura ’s comment is:

Laura

Wow.

Out of 151, I thought I'd have a problem voting, but there was one that was so beautiful...

I'm a second Laura and I agree, com-ple-tely with the first one!!!!!

It's sooooo beautiful.

However...

On Sep.27.2004 at 08:48 PM
Seth’s comment is:

I can see cchs's point. There were some that were maybe funny or cute or whatever, but not very well-designed. Good concepts, maybe, but poorly executed. Some are very interesting. And then there are a few that are really integrated and work as a cohesive unit. And they're just beautiful, or surprising. It's good to see the posters all laid out like this and compare them. I'm confident mine doesn't fall in the top 50 percent, so I've got some growing up to do. Very good learning experience.

On Sep.28.2004 at 02:18 AM
Pesky Illustrator’s comment is:

Any body willing to say which ones are hitting both the conceptual and visual home runs?

...in the name of positibibivity okay here's two i liked- the type one with bigger and bigger type...

Graham, interesting proposal: no offense is intended, but it's not a matter of "home runs" to me. I don't know about anybody else who submitted an entry but approval was the last thing I was interested in. I don't care if mine are chosen or disliked by anybody. I wanted to have fun. Is that so wrong? If we're talking about successful designs or self-conscious pomposity or throwaway lines, there are some in each category. Why spoil enjoyment with critiques? I konw, this is a contest and votes count. I'm declining to vote. There's not one that, I think, rises to singular "best of show". Anyone bold enough to enter has my admiration. But comparing and critiquing are what designers do, don't they? Just enjoying the variety...

On Sep.28.2004 at 07:47 AM
szkat’s comment is:

i think your POV would be more justified if there weren't things like guidelines, prizes, or judges using their time on the project.

but seriously, i'm glad you had fun. :)

On Sep.28.2004 at 09:06 AM
agrayspace’s comment is:

I admit too that I am having a hard time choosing just one. There isn't one that is a clear winner, but thats a good thing. It would be a shame if there was only one.

To clarify and in Grahams defence, it was I who prompted the idea of the "home run". :)

For a minute it seemed that things might develop from the big pat on the back to a more critical discussion of the strongest entries. For example, Grahams response to my inquiry, singled out posters that I myself was not really responding to. At first I was surprised to see that someone picked ones outside of my top 10, but those feelings quickly subsided as I appreciated the other perspective very much.

So again I call on people to put forth there perspectives on which entries they feel are the most successful visually and conceptually. Or even better lets discuss the near misses, the ones that are so close to "great" but fall just short.

I personally find that more interesting of a discussion than, "appreciating them all for the uniqueness".

The Critique:

Entry #055

For me this is visually a knockout. But I am conflicted because I feel, firstly that the barcode is a little trite even though its handled with originality and wit. And secondly the connection between the Chaplin image and the idea of consumption is a little bit of a stretch.

Entry #071

Again I feel this one is awesome visually. From its elegant modernist type to its sly rendering of a shirt. But it proves to be an example of bad quote selection as the subject matter isn't thought provoking enough to be something I want on my wall.

Just a few thoughts. I am so conflicted....

On Sep.28.2004 at 09:10 AM
cchs’s comment is:

I don't know about anybody else who submitted an entry but approval was the last thing I was interested in...

But it's a contest, and there are judges. The whole context is one of criticism, evaluation, and — god forbid —�judgement. One of the great values of SpeakUp is that it provides a forum that largely democratizes criticism. It is a fantastic experiment, and one in which I believe wholeheartedly.

But.

If we're going to take criticism out of the hands of the elite and put it in the hands of the masses, then we (the masses) must step up to the plate and take this new responsibility seriously, or risk becoming irrelevant. Yes, that's right, irrelevant. I'm a populist, don't get me wrong. I believe in Power to the People. But with power comes responsibility. In this case it's a responsibility to set a standard of excellence and measure ourselves and each other against it. You don't get an award just for showing up, and you don't get an A for effort. Excellence is what is rewarded, and in the end, excellence saves.

On Sep.28.2004 at 09:48 AM
Pesky Illustrator’s comment is:

cchs: Sure, a contest with judges and prizes.Criticism and judgement. That's fine. Don't take such umbridge over what I say. I just wanted to have fun. Relevancy is what you make of it...

On Sep.28.2004 at 10:05 AM
Greg’s comment is:

Same goes for a little book, which I would really like to do. But who knows.

You've got at least one buyer if you decide to go with a book. Many, many great entries, and a very inspiring selection (even if there's no 'perfect' poster).

On Sep.28.2004 at 10:07 AM
szkat’s comment is:

i second that emotion

On Sep.28.2004 at 10:11 AM
ps’s comment is:

You don't get an award just for showing up, and you don't get an A for effort.

cchs: step of your horse. sometimes its about participating. not about winning. not about creating the perfect entry.

On Sep.28.2004 at 10:17 AM
cchs’s comment is:

In numerical order:

055

Visually arresting in the classic poster tradition. Perhaps the most aesthetically resolved entry. I agree that the Chaplin image obscures the meaning, however, so it's hard to give this one high conceptual marks.

060

Typographically interesting, and a good little ad for SpeakUp, but it doesn't hold my interest as a poster. Posters need to work from 20 feet, 10 feet, and 1 foot away, and the experience here is over at a glance.

074

Simple and cynical, and makes its point with minimal efficiency. This one works at 20 feet and 1 foot, and I think that's okay. I can't see the actual type closely enough on screen to know if the craft is as sophisticated as the concept.

116

Follows the 20/10/1 rule, but I'm not sure I care about the essay enough to hang it on my wall.

118

Usually I hate stuff like this, but that's the cutest Gill will ever be. It would be stronger without the caption.

147

I love the quote. I love the image. I hate the type in the image. If the caption were cooper black or century schoolbook and half the size this might be a great poster.

On Sep.28.2004 at 10:19 AM
Tan’s comment is:

cchs, you like things floating in the middle of the page, and symmetrical — don't you? That's exactly what your choices all have in common.

For all of your outspokenness, it's interesting to see your design preferences. It says a lot.

On Sep.28.2004 at 10:32 AM
agrayspace’s comment is:

You don't get an award just for showing up, and you don't get an A for effort.

I'll back you up here cchs.

As a group participating in the community aspects of design, we owe it to ourselves to be acting in a critical manner. To be learning from each other. The only way to do that is to discuss between each other the merits and weaknesses of our work. That is the point of the group critiques that we've been practicing since school.

If the whole point was just to be personally happy with the work in your own little closet, then you are creating art not practicing design. Without the critical element, we may never learn better conceptual development but only copy visual styles.

Granted I believe critical discussions should be done in a constructive manner, but you have to be willing and able to hold your work up to the flame of criticism. And watch it burn.

On Sep.28.2004 at 10:39 AM
cchs’s comment is:

Tan, my selections are based on the work's conceptual strength more so than a particular device or aesthetic (though I do have an admitted predisposition toward the minimal). Centered and floating? Hmmm...not so much, but it is interesting that you identified a commonality among the six selections, I hadn't noticed it myself. Generally, I like a little more tension in the work, but there really aren't many examples of that.

I'm curious now, what do you think these choices indicate about my design preferences, and how do you see that relating to my outspokenness?

On Sep.28.2004 at 11:21 AM
Rick’s comment is:

I believe in Power to the People.

Excellence is what is rewarded, and in the end, excellence saves.

Sorry to divert this into what is a tangent, but I totally disagree. Have you ever worked in-house? Ever had six different people to please? Ever present to a panel?

For that matter, did you ever notice that everyone on the Am I fill-in-the-blank Or Not rates exactly a five?

The more you let every individual have a vote, the more the spikes and valleys turn into a straight line. It's great to open this up to public commentary, but at the end of the day I'm happy with the posters I did and I'll pick and choose what parts of your crit to accept and what part to ignore. You can only be taught what you want to learn.

On Sep.28.2004 at 11:30 AM
Steve Mock’s comment is:

Students:

The Library of Congress has collected over 900 WPA posters produced between 1936 and 1943. Most of these were silkscreened.

Browse the posters, learn about the collection and find out where the word 'serigraph' comes from.

Link

Seeing all these Speak Up submissions gathered together here is just fantastic. These poster pages get an 'A' for usability, IMO.

Good job.

On Sep.28.2004 at 11:55 AM
danielle’s comment is:

i love # 15 personally. i don't think i'd change a thing. the quote selection wasn't necessarily anything spectacular, but i think the execution really does it for me. it almost stresses me putting myself into the subject's head with everything swirling around. very contemplative. excellent placement, fabulous use of color.

on the subject: which ones made the most of the paper stock and print limitations, color, etc?

On Sep.28.2004 at 12:00 PM
Tan’s comment is:

>I'm curious now, what do you think these choices indicate about my design preferences.

You started out very adamant about the quality of the work — all fire and brimstone. Which is cool—nothing wrong with setting a challenge.

But the work that you chose all seems rather tame and conservative, to say the least. Seems completely counter to what I was expecting from your initial position, that's all.

>my selections are based on the work's conceptual strength more so than a particular device or aesthetic

But you also recited your 20/10/1 rule, which is strongly based on visual aesthetic, rather than any hidden conceptual/cerebral asset. So which is it?

Btw, I've heard that rule before, and think it's bogus. There's no tried and true formula to the success of a poster. For every reason, there are a thousand exceptions. It's the same with typography.

Sorry, I'm really not trying to pick a fight or discount your criticisms. But just like the work—if you're willing to offer criticism, then be prepared for people to challenge and discuss its merits.

On Sep.28.2004 at 12:10 PM
Hrant’s comment is:

I'm a total wet blanket when it comes to liking graphic design, but I thought these posters were of very high quality. Some of them were beautiful. I think most of them outdid their content.

Interface: I think it's pretty tight*. The way you get a medium-size preview at the top-left is great. The only thing I'd add is forward/backward navigation on the full-size images.

* Am I allowed to use that term at my age?

Also, the voting mechanism (like the 5-difference thing) is very smart. But I have a question: are people supposed to vote based mostly on the meaning of the quote, the aesthetic appeal, the quality of the match between the quote and the content (which to me is real Design), or the two separately, or what? You might come back with "there is no 'supposed' in voting", but I would say that the intent of the competition must be respected. Just like you don't vote for a president you'd enjoy having dinner or going to Church with, you vote for one that can think. Assuming you even make the mistake of voting these days, but that's another poster competition.

hhp

On Sep.28.2004 at 12:10 PM
cchs’s comment is:

No need to apologize Tan, I don't take offense to any of your points. I agree that my selections are graphically pretty tame, but of the 151, they are the only designs that (for me) approach the level of aesthetic and conceptual quality that would warrant the resources needed to produce them.

I think the 20/10/1 rule (and yes, rules are made to be broken) is less an aesthetic requirement (though it arguably is that) and has more to do with functionality. Whereas a brochure or website is designed to be viewed at an intimated distance, posters — like book covers these days — need to attract someone from afar (20') then give the viewer some payoff for approaching (1'). If there is a way to engage them along the way (10') then you've managed to infuse a degree of pacing into information hierarchy.

Which would be your selections?

On Sep.28.2004 at 12:28 PM
Greg’s comment is:

Hrant-

I think voting based on concept, execution, and relation to Speak Up (since these will end up representing the site to people that don't know about it), in that order, should be the factors you use to vote. Just my $1.02 adjusted for inflation.

On Sep.28.2004 at 01:00 PM
ps’s comment is:

i think Hrant brings up a good point. ideally everyone that votes would could reference some criteria. otherwise what do we vote for.

for those discussing it: what is the 20/10/1 rule again? i'm drawing a blank... must have been a while since i attended that lecture.

On Sep.28.2004 at 01:15 PM
danielle’s comment is:

don't forget that in the original rules, it mentioned that "the Judges will base their selections on the following:

1. choice of quote It has to be interesting, engaging, challenging or at the very least amusing and funny. this to me was one of the first criteria i'd consider when viewing. it's the theme to the contest! otherwise we'd just have a bunch of pretty pictures.

2. visual development of quote The design must complement the quote and not be a literal translation of it. Wit, charm, humor, assertiveness and even shock are some of the qualities to strive for.

3. overall impact The poster as a whole has to work, pop, bang, whizz, wow, impact, you know… kick ass."

more than just the design or 'common rules' apply here. i know when i was trying to judge, although some of them might have looked great, i didn't see them as ones i'd hang on my wall to inspire me. i suppose i created my own standard there, but given the context of the contest, it seemed the poster should have something to do with design or our field.

and geez, considering rule #1 before rule #2, i know the rules said "shock" was a quality to strive for, but some quotes were selected that i would never consider tactfully frameworthy! am i alone in thinking so?

On Sep.28.2004 at 01:59 PM
Tan’s comment is:

CCHS — yes, the 20/10/1 rule is most applicable to functionality. But legibility is sometimes counter to dynamicism, and so forth. But I know you're not saying that function is everything...

>Which would be your selections?

Here are my initial picks, not in any order.

13 - the image is striking, and matches the complexity and structure of the quote. But the type is incongruous somehow...it's not bad, just not quite there. But I'd hang this one.

20 - type deconstruction like this often can be a mess. This is not. The forms are intriguing, if not quite legible. The typography has good "feel", texture, and rhythm.

24 - nice imagery and visual pun. I like how the shirt and background meld into one another. The type's just ok. I'd hang this one too.

42 - I know it's schmaltzy, but it has a children's book kind of delight about it. I like the type. The hands have to go, though.

56 - strong imagery, but a bit too familiar. The type needs work.

95 - there's something simple and dynamic about this piece that makes it striking. But again, type needs work.

120 - like some wine, this poster has a powerful punch at first taste, but it doesn't have follow-through. The quote is dry, and the brick is conceptually, well, a brick. I'd lose the tag.

146 - beautifully elegant illustration, though I don't think it matches the quote, which is much more flippant in tone. The type is interesting, but seems ill-fitted to the illustration. I think both compete with one another. Either the type or the illustration would've worked alone. Together, well....

147 - The image is striking, but the quote is uninteresting. It seems like someone had a great image and idea, and went hunting for an appropriate quote. But it did catch my eye.

I left out my own submission, which I think works, but I'm admittedly biased. Anyway, that's my o-p-i-n-i-o-n. Take it or leave it.

On Sep.28.2004 at 02:55 PM
DesignMaven’s comment is:

Peter,

what is the 20/10/1 rule again? i'm drawing a blank... must have been a while since i attended that lecture.

I know you well enough to know you're just Breaking Balls.

Since the SWISS are Revered and Acknowledged as the Best Poster Designer(s) in the World.

Weren't you Educated at Allegemeine Gewerbueschule ??? (Basel School of Design)

TAN, TEACH, TEACH, TEACH !!!!

CCCH, Just Breaking Balls.

Pesky, I'm with you.

Only because, I didn't participate.

I feel Condemned to Vote or Critique.

IMHO, I think Critiquing the posters maybe meritorious on some level.

Wasn't mentioned as a Criteria for entering and should not Commence.

Let them Stand or Fall on their own Merit.

On Sep.28.2004 at 03:13 PM
Hrant’s comment is:

The Swiss make good chocolate. And cheese.

Eurofrigid design - not my cup of Lapsang Souchong.

hhp

On Sep.28.2004 at 03:47 PM
ps’s comment is:

The Swiss make good chocolate. And cheese.

Eurofrigid design - not my cup of Lapsang Souchong.

as long as you like the cheese...

On Sep.28.2004 at 04:15 PM
Greg’s comment is:

I like cheese.

Actually, I was kinda disappointed that I didn't see that quote all swirly and repeated around a circle in a pattern, Marian...

On Sep.28.2004 at 04:37 PM
DesignMaven’s comment is:

THERE'S NO DENYING SWISS Design.

If you like David Carson. Highly, Influenced by the SWISS.

April Geiman, influenced by her teacher Wolfgang

Weingart. Forebearer of SWISS Design.

Other Luminare's, Rosmarie Tissi, Armin Hoffman, Muller-Brockman,

For all that love Landor's ywca. Directly influenced by SWISS MINIMALISM.

On Sep.28.2004 at 05:54 PM
Hrant’s comment is:

Minimalism is for computers.

hhp

On Sep.28.2004 at 07:04 PM
Armin’s comment is:

When you all have a chance, please go see one poster we missed to upload. Number 48. If you have voted and would like to vote for that one instead please let us know.

On Sep.28.2004 at 08:26 PM
Tan’s comment is:

Armin Hoffman, Wolfgang Weingart, and April Greiman's work was definitely Swiss — but don't confuse the term minimalism with simplicity. Typographically, the work is complex and layered—full of texture, rhythm, and contrast in scale and voice. It's often deconstructive, and challenges all rules of legibility.

Minimalism in this case refers to the reduction of all elements such as color, imagery, and iconography — reduced until there's almost nothing left but typography, patterns, and texture. It's also referred to, more accurately, as "Reductivism." It has nothing to do with typographic complexity, or simplicity in this case.

So to call a work "minimalist" because it has simple elements and lots of white space, is often a misnomer. A better word for it might just be "dull"...

On Sep.28.2004 at 08:39 PM
ps’s comment is:

April Geiman, influenced by her teacher Wolfgang

Weingart. Forebearer of SWISS Design.

maven, you are pushing it. there were many before him. for some reason he is the name americans tend to recognize.

and about the grid system. it was drilled in my head for 4 years... just remember that: the tighter the grid, the more freedom you'll have. try it... it works.

On Sep.28.2004 at 09:14 PM
Anthony’s comment is:

013 - the image is striking, and matches the complexity and structure of the quote. But the type is incongruous somehow...it's not bad, just not quite there. But I'd hang this one.

yeah. Nice image, but I think the quote itself if not quite meshing with the image (content, not appearance of type, though that might need work too). The designer of 013 should check out this other guy's work. He makes good use of utility lines. I looove this guy's work.

dan McCarthy's Stuff

On Sep.28.2004 at 09:51 PM
Hrant’s comment is:

Grids are for circuit boards.

hhp

On Sep.29.2004 at 12:15 AM
Armin’s comment is:

A couple more oversights. Sigh.

Poster 86 has been adjusted because it had been rendered wrong by yours truly.

And 152 has just been added.

Again, if you would like to replace your vote for any of those please let us know.

On Sep.29.2004 at 08:01 AM
szkat’s comment is:

Armin, don't worry about it. you're doing very well with managing more posters than you thought you'd have to handle :) it's no hassle for us to go back and check out the newbies.

and Anthony - you're right about Dan McCarthy. i fell out of my chair, got up, sat back down, and wrote him some fan mail. he's amazing.

On Sep.29.2004 at 08:30 AM
danielle’s comment is:

ooh, i love the japanther one. who knew utility lines could be so pretty.

On Sep.29.2004 at 09:27 AM
laura’s comment is:

I (heart) Dan McCarthy as well.

But it's for the colours he uses.

On Sep.29.2004 at 10:31 AM
Gunnar Swanson’s comment is:

Grids are for circuit boards.

Hrant—

Your dismissal of a tool you don’t understand for a craft you don’t practice is fascinating. Why no statements on oboe reeds or the best lathe speeds for turning maple burls?

On Sep.29.2004 at 10:50 AM
Hrant’s comment is:

You should see what I think of Modernism as a whole.

Don't get me wrong, I do think the grid can be useful (especially when it's not really a symmetric, uniform grid in the correct sense of the word), but you don't need to practice design for a lifetime to see that all it takes to refute its sacrosanct status among most graphic designers is a basic belief in the nature of the human animal: that the conscious "comfort" facilitated by the grid is secondary to the subconscious heuristic complexity that we need. The grid is a formalism, and organisms are informal.

hhp

On Sep.29.2004 at 11:53 AM
Gunnar Swanson’s comment is:

Hrant—

Note the “tool you don’t understand” part of my message. Your understanding of grids is based on grids you notice. Do you object to cross-cutting in film because it’s irritating when you’re aware of it? I have no doubt about the passion of your opinion. It’s the basis of it that I question.

On Sep.29.2004 at 12:03 PM
Sarah B.’s comment is:

So many look great... make me even more upset that I didn't finish mine.

This is hard to decide!!!

Armin, I am glad that you havent put up "current standing" or most votes... I have seen "contests" online before that people just vote the same way everyone else did, probably because they couldnt form an opinion on their own! And I would also like to say, GREAT job on managing them... the small rollover in the left corner is a great way to preview - thank you for making it so easy!

On Sep.29.2004 at 12:56 PM
Greg’s comment is:

Um...this is a thread about the poster contest, right? I got lost in the Swiss/formalist/McCarthyism's.

On Sep.29.2004 at 01:53 PM
DesignMaven’s comment is:

Just Chiming In.

Greg:

This thread is actually about Cheese.

McCarthy never funded a Design Project in his life. If left up to McCarthy, Bauhaus immigrants and others would've never made it to the United States. If alive definitly would've shut down Speak Up after PK's Ode to Ronald Reagan.

Not a Good Juxtaposition !!!!!!!

oooch, TAN, DO TELL...

Can't Argue with you !!!!! Because, you Speak the Truth.

Everybody, Please read my link, before you read my comments.

TAN, and I are on the Same Page. This isn't about One Up Manship. Just sharing knowledge.

http://webpages.marshall.edu/~bruggemann1/international_typographic_style1.htm

Swiss Design, belongs to a design tradition variously referred to as functionalism, Swiss Design, or The International Style. Developed out of Constructivism, De Stijl, and the Bauhaus, was fueled by the belief that cultural differences and historical change could be transcended by a supposedly Universal Language of Geometric Grids, Systematic Typography, Simplified Drawings, and Objective Photographs.

As modernism became an official corporate and institutional style in the 1950's and 1960's, many architects and graphic designers questioned its aesthetic and philosophical principles. What had begun as a radically democratic methodology came to be seen as elitist, anti-individualistic, and overly abstract.

Only in the Hands of Lesser Talent. As noted in my link.

Peter,

I was trying to incorporate a name everyone would Identify, which is Weingart.

I can go back further to Donald Brun. World Renowned Identity and Branding Designer/Consultant Founder of AGI with Fritz B�hler.

Other(s) not to show off. Just my depth of knowledge of the Original Forebearers of Swiss Movement before Weingart received recognition.

1. Hans Arp

2. Theo Ballmar

3. Otto Baumberger

4. Max Bill

5. Walter Cyliax

6. Adrian Frutiger, TAN's, Favorite Type Designer.

7. Karl Gertsner, Personal Favorite.

8. Augusto Giacometti

9. Carl B. Graf

10. Fritz Gottschalk, founder of Gottschalk Ash. With Stuart Ash.World Renowned Identity Consultancy.

11. Walter Herdog

12. Hans Hartmann

13. Max Huber, Definetly influenced Carson.

14. Hermann Eidenbenz

15. Ernst Keller, Personal Favorite, Influenced SAUL BASS' Man With the Golden Arm Poster and EXODUS Poster.

16. Ruedi Kulling

17. Richard P. Lohse, My personal favorite.

18. Max Schmidt

19. Eduard Schupp

20. Anton Stankowski

21. Henri Steiner

22. Jan Tschichold

23. Carlo Vivarelli, Personal Favorite, Definetly influenced Carson.

24. Alfred Willimann

25. Kurt Wirth

Newcomer, J�rg Zintzmeyer founder of InterBrand Zintzmeyer & Lux

Although, a few these Design Luminare's may not be Swiss by Birth. They were a part of the Swiss Movement.

Although, very young compared to the aforementioned Luminare's April Geiman, Dan Friedman, and Willi Kunz were Directly influenced by the aforementioned Master(s).

Peter, That short list should more than make-up for my oversight of naming Weingart the Forebearer.

Hrant:

I'm disappointed you didn't name the Cuckoo Clock. I collect them.

Like I did when I was very young. My youngest daughter thinks it's a real bird. Marvelous invention.

On Sep.29.2004 at 03:34 PM
agrayspace’s comment is:

This is confusing to me. Whats with the tendency to confuse "swiss design" in its reference to Weingart late work and its influence on designers like Greiman and Friedman with the work of old Swiss masters of the International Typographic Style (or Modernism per say)?

Wouldn't you say they generally have nothing to do with each other, aside from one being the natural deconstructionist reaction to the others dogma surrounding clarity and abstraction.

Even hinting that these people are in the same category by labeling them "Swiss" design seems a little myopic.

Not trying to argue but I really dont get it.

and Maven, you most definitely were showing off. Don't deny it.

On Sep.29.2004 at 03:58 PM
szkat’s comment is:

i know, that list took forever to scroll past. :)

but seriously kids, no one should confuse McCarthy with McCarthyism. for the love of God. the former makes beautiful posters, the latter... well, if you can't say anything nice, etc etc.

On Sep.29.2004 at 04:19 PM
Greg’s comment is:

Greg- This thread is actually about Cheese.

Oh....Thanks DM.

Levity! Levity!

On Sep.29.2004 at 04:54 PM
DesignMaven’s comment is:

Greg: You know my love for you.

Just Breaking Balls.

agrayspace:

Peter Scherer, aka (ps) is GENUINELY a SWISS Designer.

Better Qualified to answer your Question.

If you can't get in touch with Peter.

Try TAN. The GURU in Residence.

BTW, I never show off !!! I shudder to think...

szkat:

I'm half a Century Young. Took for Granted, most people understood I was referencing Joseph McCarthy era. (McCarthyism)

Armin and Byrony: Apologies for going off topic.

I'm writing 5000 times. I MUST NOT GO OFF TOPIC.

On Sep.29.2004 at 04:57 PM
Rick’s comment is:

I just wonder

Why DesignMaven seems to

enjoy using the

strong

tag so often.

Frequently, I myself have considered writing that way, but only out of respect. But it's a huge

pain to keep doing it.

So I will not!

Also: Cheese

On Sep.29.2004 at 06:22 PM
Stephen Coles’s comment is:

While everyone's voting, can we have a little fun and count the common trends and elements used?

Did someone count the number of Marian Bantjes quotes?

The number of Bantjes-styled designs?

Sorry, I haven't. But I think the answer to both questions is: more than anyone else's.

On Sep.29.2004 at 08:50 PM
Aaron and Jeanine Shimer’s comment is:

Is anyone surprised at some of the posters other designers like? I certainly am. When you say, "I like this design and that design," or "there's at least 20 designs I like," some will agree and some will wonder how you can even call yourself a professional designer.

Contests like these remind me how much design is subjective to personal taste. As an industry we use annuals, contests, books, and collections to try and make our case for which designs we think are better, or the next wave, or the new school, or just good and right. We even form groups we then pay a lot of money to be a part of and then hold our membership as a status for those beliefs. But really, as it is being revealed in this contest, we are all so completely different.

You could study the fundamentals of design, composition and typography for six years and hold two masters degrees with awards from every guild in the industry, and if I have different taste than you, I'm not going to like your design. I don't care how good it is technically or how much clout you carry. Design is a matter of taste. From furniture, to cars, to houses, to clothing, to posters, everything that is designed is made for an audience who will appreciate it because they have similar tastes for a specific style. This contest is no exception and in fact is probably even more polarized because we’re designing for ourselves and we’re all from such different backgrounds. As designers we’ll never be able to please everybody, ever.

In the end, it’s up to the taste of the contest judges (clients).

On Sep.29.2004 at 11:31 PM
Hrant’s comment is:

> Did someone count the number of Marian Bantjes quotes?

The stat I want to see is the number of times a person is quoted in proportion to his/her number of total posts, or better yet, in proportion to his/her total posted text bytes... :->

Of course we'd need a unit of measure for such a stat, and I propose "QQ": Quotability Quotient.

hhp

On Sep.29.2004 at 11:50 PM
Pesky Illustrator’s comment is:

A&J S:

Naturally! What other criteria is there for us - individually or collectively - but selecion by taste? Even an animal sniffs it's food before biting. (I'm not implying that certain selections "stink", BTW.) Selection is how we operate - and the Why and How advertising operates. It's still a good exercise in flexing the creative mind, don't you think? You're right, of course, that there is no empirical measure for selecting "best of show". And before someone takes umbridge, I'm not suggesting that this CONTEST is trivial. Or that a "winner" isn't deserving. It's by voting. A threshold of agreement on one will be interesting, nevertheless, if only out of curiosity.

It's all in fun, isn't it? It's been pointed out to me already: contest, judgement, taking the heat.

I was quoted twice, Hrant, and neither of them are lofty or even intelligent design topic quotes,I admit. I should aspire to better, I see. Pretty good posters though. Both of the designers made something out of my worst.HA! HA!

And that's one trend grouping I found interesting: deliberately throwaway quotes or deliberately bad art(myself included.) It's about in the same proportion (1/3) to the number of posters that work at being beautiful and elegant (1/3) or the ones that are faithful to austere design principals and impact(1/3)...those are the three trends I see.....anybody see that too?

On Sep.30.2004 at 09:34 AM
Aaron S’s comment is:

I'm not suggesting that this CONTEST is trivial. Or that a "winner" isn't deserving.

Definitely deserving, but only as deserving as the taste of the majority. Which I would argue doesn't always produce the best results, but again, that's subjective too. Trivial no, but any contest with such loose criteria could definitely be classified as subjective. Even in sports like ice skating, a combination of sport and art, because of the presence of artistic merit the participants are at the mercy of the taste of the judges. You see there really aren't winners in contests like these, only favorites of a given audience. At any rate, I think we should take the results with a grain of salt.

I would argue that contests can encourage designers to meet the expectations of their audience. Especially when the stakes are high. And this should explain the proliferation of visual themes and trends in the designs we see here, and of which there are many of similarity. The same could be said of a CA annual. In an industry that caters to the whim of taste, trends are bound to surface. No one is immune, unless you live in a cave or something.

On Sep.30.2004 at 11:13 AM
graham’s comment is:

anyway, you don't know nuffing about posters until you've seen sture johannessons posters. scroll down the linked page . . . heat.

On Sep.30.2004 at 11:21 AM
Aaron S’s comment is:

Yeah, but everybody copies these guys, masters, and big influences:

Victor Moscoso

Stanley Mouse

Wes Wilson

On Sep.30.2004 at 12:58 PM
Hrant’s comment is:

> I was quoted twice

Same here (unless I missed others). Now divide that by the number of [text] kilobytes you've posted to SpeakUp threads.

Competitions, everywhere! :-)

hhp

On Sep.30.2004 at 01:03 PM
Aaron S’s comment is:

We could all learn something from these modern day masters:

Aesthetic Apparatus

The Bird Machine

Patent Pending Industries

They make us all look like amateurs. Hey Armin, there's your judges for next year, subjectively speaking.

On Sep.30.2004 at 01:38 PM
ian’s comment is:

all i want to know is when is the next design competition! cause dammit, i'm going to participate next time, just you wait and see.

On Sep.30.2004 at 02:14 PM
Armin’s comment is:

Sorry, I've been a little out of the loop on this discussion. A few points:

Re: Criteria

Thank you Danielle for copying and pasting the criteria here. It's funny, I had not consciously put the criteria in order of importance but, yes, the quote would be the first thing to filter and it doesn't necessarily have to relate a 100% to graphic design, since a lot of things we talk about here end up being "life" stuff. Secondly, visually tying the quote and the graphics is important, I mean, if there is a disconnect what's the point? And lastly, execution; it obviously has to be visually cool otherwise, again, what's the point? The judges will have the exact same criteria, so it will definitely be interesting to see what they react to.

Re: Popular Vote

As Pesky observed, the result of the "viewer's choice" winner is (or will be)… well, odd. But that's what democratic, majority-driven processes yield I guess. Will the "best" poster win? Probably not but that's OK. And so far the voting has been very spread out, there are a few that are clearly more popular but a lot of posters have gotten votes. So far, we've received slightly over 400 votes.

Re: Quotability Quotient

Indeed an interesting statistic. I didn't keep count but I think Jason A. Tselentis trumped all competition with the most requests of use. And his ratio is probably very good. There weren't as many Marian Bantjes quotes (and I really didn't notice any MB-styled posters).

I think that's it. And, you know, I have no idea who I would vote for.

On Sep.30.2004 at 02:25 PM
Hrant’s comment is:

QQ:

Let's see some numbers:

1) Number of times quoted (not requests).

2) Amount in Kb person has written on SpeakUp (or if that's too hard at least number of posts made).

hhp

On Sep.30.2004 at 03:06 PM
jenny’s comment is:

I thought Tan was accused of winning that second stat a while ago... ;o)

On Sep.30.2004 at 03:29 PM
Hrant’s comment is:

QQ is not about #1 or #2, it's about #1 divided by #2. So Tan for example would need a ton of his quotes used to have a high QQ.

hhp

On Sep.30.2004 at 04:09 PM
Tan’s comment is:

Please leave me out of this. A lot of people have interesting things to say on SU that has nothing to do with "quotability." I think Armin's idea of using quotes for posters was a great way of getting readers to connect with authors and regular posters. Please don't turn that into a negative or competitive thing.

You can quote me on that.

On Sep.30.2004 at 06:25 PM
jenny’s comment is:

Sorry Tan - just joking... Wasn't meant to be negative thing - you are right of course.

On Sep.30.2004 at 07:05 PM
Hrant’s comment is:

If people didn't enjoy competing, a large chunk of the raison d'�tre of this whole poster thing would be gone.

Quotability: OF COURSE it's not the only thing that matters - in fact to an elitist like me it's a pretty shallow benchmark. But it's fun, and to some extent interesting. So I want the numbers.

hhp

On Sep.30.2004 at 07:49 PM
getcarter’s comment is:

I'm sure this is completely out of order of me but I feel I must....

Number 72. As well as referencing your quote, perhaps you should also reference your inspiration.

On Sep.30.2004 at 11:33 PM
marian’s comment is:

The number of Bantjes-styled designs?

I only counted 3, and one of them's mine. But I'm pretty excited by the thought that at least one person on this planet thinks there's a style worth attaching my name to.

As for the QQ, as a purely amusing pastime I share hrant's curiousity. It would take far too much of Armin's time to figure out, so it's not a serious call for the QQ.

If I had had to put money on who would be most-quoted I would have bet on D'Maven ... but in QQ terms, given the gigabytes of his postings, it would have had to be very high indeed.

Next time, perhaps a little betting pool would be in order...

On Oct.01.2004 at 02:12 AM
Rick’s comment is:

Marian- There's still time to get a little action on this thing! The winners haven't been announced yet...

getcarter-That is distressing. There's probably a discussion topic in that. It happens, but it sucks.

On Oct.01.2004 at 11:39 AM
Greg’s comment is:

It's not my poster, but I mean, c'mon:

Number 72. As well as referencing your quote, perhaps you should also reference your inspiration.

Like it's impossible that two people in the whole world could possibly have thought of this idea on their own. It's not exactly revolutionary. Besides, it could be the same artist. Even if it's not, designers borrow all the time, it's never going to be the exact same. If it had been a direct plagiarization, then there might be beef. Let's be a bit more thoughtful before we start tossing out accusatory statements.

On Oct.01.2004 at 12:05 PM
Hrant’s comment is:

> It's not exactly revolutionary.

Exactly. And it's hard to think of any design ideas that are. Designers, being part artists, like to think they -and by extension their work- is unique. They even defend other artists agaist [perceived] plagiarism because that projects positively unto their own self-importance. J J Rousseau said that when god made him, he threw away the mold; it's a damn shame Rousseau wasn't still in it when the mold was chucked.

--

BTW, I'm realizing that the denominator of QQ should be in megs, not K, otherwise everybody will probably end up with a quotient less than 1, which is kinda boring.

hhp

On Oct.01.2004 at 12:13 PM
Tan’s comment is:

>Number 72.

First, it's not out of order of you, getcarter.

But secondly, everything's been done already in design. It's about appropriateness and context — not originality.

I mean, if I had the time and energy, I could find close derivatives and influences for every poster that was submitted, including my own.

I'm not advocating blatant plaigarism, but let's be real here.

Again, one of my fave Mau manifesto:

35. Imitate. Don’t be shy about it. Try to get as close as you can. You’ll never get all the way, and the separation might be truly remarkable. We have only to look to Richard Hamilton and his version of Marcel Duchamp’s large glass to see how rich, discredited, and underused imitation is as a technique.

On Oct.01.2004 at 12:29 PM
Shahla’s comment is:

I'm wondering if I may have missed something. Two PMS plus black or is this a 2-color job?

Veer and Speak-up logos will no doubt add to the overall look of the poster and on some designs with two relatively light-colored inks used, the credits (if it is a 2-color job) could look inadequate.

My top ten picks are on the screen as 'big gifs'. They're numbers 11, 15, 45, 58, 65, 95, 115, 119, 121, and 149. This isn't easy to do given that the latest consideration is that we're to be seasonal and pick red and green designs. A gift to give for the holidays. . . just kidding Armin.

a note about number 35 -the 'big gif' is only partly visible.

On Oct.01.2004 at 04:22 PM
Anthony’s comment is:

I like these dudes. I was reminded of them by Aaron S's links up there, esp Wes Wilson. These are also strongly reminiscent of work that was coming out of Fort Thunder. If you're not from around Providence (lucky you), the Fort was a music/puppetry/wrestling/dance/theater/printing/audio-art venue which flourished briefly but brightly from the early nineties until 2002, when the Fort's mill building was destroyed to make way for a Staples and Home Depot.

On Oct.01.2004 at 05:30 PM
Shahla’s comment is:

Specifically, #22 has a black irregular scratchy element (wasn't there to begin with) that, if printed, would make this a 3-color job. Yellow, blue, and black.

If it is a corrupted gif then the question is: would the credits be printed in blue or overprint green?

On Oct.01.2004 at 10:15 PM
Armin’s comment is:

> I'm wondering if I may have missed something. Two PMS plus black or is this a 2-color job?

It's just a two color job. Credits will be rendered in the darker color of each poster, even if the darker color happens to be yellow.

> Specifically, #22 has a black irregular scratchy element (wasn't there to begin with)

Damnit, I thought I had fixed that. Yeah, that is not supposed to be there.

> would the credits be printed in blue or overprint green?

Blue, to avoid registration problems with the smaller type in the credits.

On Oct.02.2004 at 10:07 AM
Bryony’s comment is:

500+ votes! only two more days to go!

On Oct.02.2004 at 10:28 AM
Hrant’s comment is:

And there I was thinking you guys are the competitive type.

hhp

On Oct.03.2004 at 12:08 PM
kp’s comment is:

Number 72. As well as referencing your quote, perhaps you should also reference your inspiration.

getcarter

As if the above comments about sources, inspiration and plagiarism weren't enough — I happen to know the designer of the poster and can vouch for that person's integrity on the matter. The designer simply took up the challenge of the quote and executed 100 logos from memory. We had lots of chuckles about backwards elements and the obscurity of marks made by the designer.

I think it's important to remember that people are connected to the comments and contributions on this site, people you may one day meet, or even work with.

And as smart as we would all like to appear, there's not necessarily a connection between all the things you know, and all the things other people know.

Everyone raise their hand if they've seen the Letterbox poster. Gee, that's not everyone.

I began reading this site because of this designer and have even started to contribute. It's clear to me that this community can remain strong, as long as we don't fall back on unfortunately typical web interaction behaviour. We are professionals, this is our work, and none of us take it lightly. If we did, we wouldn't bother contributing at all.

Perhaps then, getcarter you might have waited until after the voting was completed (I'm assuming the identity of the posters' designers will be posted by Armin) and asked the designer directly about his/her sources. Seeing as how this person is a regular contributor (and that's you're only hint), s/he would be more than happy to discuss it with you.

On Oct.04.2004 at 01:07 PM
agrayspace’s comment is:

Nobody accused the artist of outright plagiarism. Getcarter was just pointing out a similarity that requires some attention, as the originality of thought is something serious designers take seriously.

It was quickly pointed out by the community that the chances that the artist of poster 27 could have only come to this design solution by having seen and copied the letterbox poster to be very slim. So benefit of the doubt was granted.

By the way, isn't being a regular contributor actually irrelevant. As if the veterans of the site demand a different level of respect than anyone else. The "I was here first" mentality tastes bitter.

On Oct.04.2004 at 01:26 PM
agrayspace’s comment is:

oops I meant poster 72.

On Oct.04.2004 at 01:27 PM
kp’s comment is:

Nobody accused the artist of outright plagiarism.

Of course not. I wrote only that it was part of the previous comments. Perhaps I should have written, "the nature of plagiarism."

So benefit of the doubt was granted.

By other commentators, not getcarter. And I mostly agree with what they had to say. Some of my comments were directed towards getcarter, and some were my opinion on how to maintain a strong and civil discussion community.

The "I was here first" mentality tastes bitter.

I agree with you, considering that this post is my second written contribution to this forum. My first is above. (My first contrbution altogether was to the WordIt section.)

My only reason for mentioning the regular contributions of the designer of poster 72 is that, as committed and active as this person is, striking up a discussion with them would be quite easy. You might not get that kind of response from everyone. Also, I would have tried to guess at the designer's identity, and assumed others would as well.

And I spelled "your" incorrectly.

On Oct.04.2004 at 01:56 PM
Tan’s comment is:

So? we're waiting...

On Oct.04.2004 at 04:50 PM
Armin’s comment is:

Tomorrow!

It's a close race.

On Oct.04.2004 at 05:13 PM
Rick’s comment is:

hurryhurryhurryhurryhurryhurrycan'twaitcomeonhurrypleeeeze

On Oct.04.2004 at 08:10 PM
DDA&R’s comment is:

Some posters have given me an anuerism trying to figure out what they meant. I'll not go into that, seeing as how I am really late, anyways.

#42

Yes, a pretty poster and reminscent of children's books, but unfortunately, God Speed You Black Emperor aswell. Too much so, so for future use lose the hands or make them different. I do like how it looks like they are orchestrating the cloudy heart.

#47

What does braille have to do with a democratic government?

#74

I like it, sadly, I don't think alot of people will agree because of the very aspect of it that attracts me to it. Simplicity is frowned on (for a reason that is way too elaborate and detailed to explain here) in our generation ("d" that is). People think you need to spend hours and hours on a piece for it to achieve recognition.

#91

Way too obscure, yet pretty. Think about working with that idea, which is a good one.

#130

Sexy. Really good.

#137

God yes. And you definately got my vote. Not only did you take the time to hand draw this, but you researched the content (or so it seems, and that is all that counts). There is a beautiful interaction between the viewer and the poster that none of these posters have invoked.

#140

Beautiful illustrations, heart—touching concept. Why has noone brought this one up in comments?

#147

Not cool. I don't understand why this one is getting so much rave. It doesn't make any sense. Sure, it is immaculately visually sexy, but that is it. It's like Cameron Diaz. The thing is, I feel this could have been brilliant if it made sense—maybe there is something missing that would have made it explode.

#129

Stop using the red paint brush "x" over the mouth. Please. I hate when I see all these college students frolliking around in "No Bush" tshirts. It's done. The poster can work without the "x."

#71

Sometimes a whole paragraph is unnecessary. Just the "New York designers made…" sentence would have been great. I love the simple lines, but cutting the "the" was silly and extremely inappropriate. It's like a poster within a poster.

In response to the listing of unusual objects or repeated objects (i.e. hammer, syringe, snowflakes, barcodes)—I think it is trite when not absolutely necessary. If a quote or idea calls for an overused image, why not brainstorm with other images that could work? Here is a simple indication of when not to use an image: when you can see it as a tattoo all over the place.

I've noticed that people in these posts can sometimes be too sensitive and easily offended, for this, I am sorry. I do not mean, at all, to drag anyone down. I loved the work and thought it was great. Even those that I chose to criticise I thought were worthy of printing. We can all help each other out by seeing the mistakes we make through other's eyes.

On Oct.05.2004 at 04:23 PM
Hrant’s comment is:

> What does braille have to do with a democratic government?

(You set yourself up for that one.)

Obvious: They both cater to the blind.

BTW, Diaz was superb in Malkovich. So much so that I had trouble recognizing her.

hhp

On Oct.05.2004 at 06:40 PM
DDA&R’s comment is:

yes, obvious.

Democracy caters to the masses' voice. But it is extremely obscure to relate this to the blind.

On Oct.07.2004 at 02:02 AM
DDA&R’s comment is:

Sorry, I forgot to post more.

I agree, Diaz was great in Malcovich. Personally, though, she seems a little ditzy. Did you see her presenting at the Mtv movie awards a couple years ago. Her (excuse my language) buttocks were showing because her pants were too small. She was too oblvious to notice.

Anyways, I understand I have failed to offer an alternative for the poster. It is a beautiful poster, this I am not denying. Maybe something closer to the idea of Democracy catering to the blind or the mass that doesn't understand politics.

On Oct.07.2004 at 02:07 AM
Hrant’s comment is:

No, you misread me - I'm with Plato on Democracy: it sucks, hard. And yeah, I'm not from around these parts.

MTV: I'd rather watch my nails grow. Or yours for that matter.

hhp

On Oct.07.2004 at 02:27 AM