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The Archives, August 2002 – April 2009
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Who Do(n’t) You Love?

Everyone loves to talk about guilty pleasures. It makes us think about our self-perceived shortcomings and it helps us to feel more human because everyone has them. Everybody can own up to something they’re not all that proud of but that they do anyway, something they look forward to, but don’t necessarily advertise. Sadly though, guilty pleasures are often very similar and are tiresome after awhile, “I secretly love to eat potato chips in bed!” “I love Christian rock!” “I thought ‘Weekend At Bernie’s II’ was far superior to the original” etc. So what? I say what you DON’T like is often even more important than what you admire, and is usually just as subjective and strange. This is true of personal habits as much as it is of what we favor as designers and artists.

For instance, (and around here it’s heresy to admit this) I don’t really care for Milton Glaser’s work. (waits for gasps to subside) I respect who he is and what he’s done, but he doesn’t speak to me like others of his stature and reputation have. In other words, he just doesn’t do it for me. To a lot of you, that’s absolutely crazy and, if you said the same thing about Saul Bass or Paul Rand, I’d surely think the same thing of you. So I usually don’t say much about it. I keep my opinion to myself. But no more. I encourage you to weigh in and free yourself from the bondage of worrying you’ll look like a boob to your peers.

Define yourself not only by what you secretly love, but also by what you’ve been afraid to say you can’t stand. Hate the IBM logo but are afraid to say so for fear of being pelted with kneaded erasers? Tell us now. Know in your heart that you could out-design everyone at Turner Duckworth? Speak up. Think Art Chantry’s work is ugly, unfriendly and too “insider” to be effective? Say so (though I will find and throw an eraser at you for that one). Come on, friends, don’t let me twist out here in the wind alone, join me. The heresy is fine.

Maintained through our ADV @ UnderConsideration Program
pk’s comment is:

goody. things i've never been allowed to say:

1) i never thought david carson was that interesting.

2) designers become complacent after they hit superstar status and create sub-standard work which does not deserve the praise it receives (hi neville!).

3) emigre magazine has very little to do with anything besides rudy vanderlans.

4) what was the big deal with razorfish and marchFIRST anyway?

5) post-modern modernism, as popularized by wallpaper* (and its ilk), is simply a thinly-veiled invitation to snobbery. it should never have been called modernism. and it's ugly, too.

6) karim rashad's work upsets me.

you may throw produce at will.

On Oct.25.2002 at 03:27 PM
A Different Tom (A.K.A. Bossman)’s comment is:

Also: A lot of designers use Flash to mask the fact that their work is unoriginal and uninspired.

On Oct.25.2002 at 03:49 PM
Darrel’s comment is:

I think graphic designers are silly.

On Oct.25.2002 at 04:05 PM
Armin’s comment is:

>what was the big deal with razorfish and marchFIRST anyway?

I can honestly say about marchFIRST that it was the biggest scam in internet history and they managed to screw a lot (around 9,000) of people's lives.

>I think graphic designers are silly.

BAM! there it is.

Now... what do I hate?

- Helvetica

- Design is Kinky and Surfstaion, K10K a little

- People who downplay awards

- Avant Garde and anything Herb Lubalin did

- Carlos Segura and his affiliates

- PC's and Windows

Things I love I would be ashamed of saying so

- Cooper Black is one of the best typefaces ever

- I still like David Carson's work

- OS 9.2

- Designing multiple page projects in Illustrator

- Skecthing in the computer.

I'll think of more stuff later.

On Oct.25.2002 at 04:30 PM
Michael’s comment is:

Template Gothic ?

I know it was before my time, but I never understood what all the fuss was about. It is in SO many pieces from the early ninties. I am open to explanations in its defense, anyone? anyone?

On Oct.25.2002 at 04:51 PM
Jose Luis’s comment is:

Im sure that ten years down the road young lads will bitch about pixel fonts too

On Oct.25.2002 at 05:06 PM
Michael’s comment is:

k10k - ALOT

Sorry Armin, you reminded me.

They definately have the nicest site (at least its original, and fun) out of that whole lump, but still most the links the "contributors" post is just incestuous eye candy.

I also loathe this guy. He must be the forefather of 'the 3d photoshop thing'. I think he is also part of this group of DR knockoff artists. Disgusting.

On Oct.25.2002 at 05:23 PM
Jose Luis’s comment is:


Pentagram and Meta as well as the attik and DR


Times, Bodoni, Clarendon as well as Helvetica and Askidenz Grotesk not to mention a lot of the newer trendy fonts.


David Carson, Segura and many of those kids doing wild and crazy 3d stuff such Mike young and James Widegren as much a Tibor kalman, Brockman and Paul Rand


�migré as well as Graphis and Commarts


To be completely honest I hate the sense of self importance that some graphic designers seem to have. You may like/dislike something but when you HATE in my opinion its more of a lack of understanding more than anything else.

Learn to love, please don’t hate.

OK, You might hate me now :)

On Oct.25.2002 at 06:06 PM
ale’s comment is:

smooth hate

  • the k10k + newstoday lobby
  • the k10k + newstoday subctractors
  • who really thinks Apple means thinking different

neat hate

  • corel draw
  • j. nielsen
  • the hollywood = cinema equation
  • helmut newton

hate to the core

  • italy
On Oct.25.2002 at 07:00 PM
Danny’s comment is:

Right on, Jose Luis.

On Oct.25.2002 at 07:58 PM
David Cushman’s comment is:

Random Related Thoughts:

� Mike Cina told me once he thought Buro Destruct was too much of a Designer's Republic ripoff -- now he's being accused of the same. That said, I probably like WWFT's work more than DR, and think Mike Cina is a true original, perhaps more interesting than Mike Young.

� I still like David Carson, although the issue of BIG he just art directed looked like a bad DC ripoff. And I might like the later incarnations of RAYGUN by Substance and Barry Deck even better than his own.

� A lot of early Emigre magazines are pretty ugly. A lot of early Emigre fonts are pretty ugly.

� Thirst has done some pretty ugly stuff.

� Links from k10k, newstoday and surfstation gets you a lot of traffic.

� I think "retro" stuff like House Industries is about the only design "movement" that I don't get really get much out of. Some of it looks perty though.

� I agree with Jose Luis's sentiments. When you say you loathe the "3d photoshop thing," you sound like someone's dad complaining about rap not being music.

� I hate reading graphic design magazines. I just look at the pictures.

� I used to think I hated Georgia (the font not the state). I don't know what I was thinking.

� A lot of designers say they dislike Flash to mask the fact that they can't figure out how to use it well.

� I'm ashamed to admit I still like distressed typewriter fonts. Especially as used by Jennifer Sterling.

On Oct.25.2002 at 09:04 PM
john boren’s comment is:

Graphic Design stuff I loathe:

Adobe applications. Photoshop is the work of Satan. Ditto Illustrator, Indesign, etc.

Any computer with an Apple logo on it; with a few exceptions. See guilty pleasures.

The holier-than-thou attitude some assume about graphic design, like when people on this board were begrudging the guy designing logos for $79 a pop.

Fonts I loathe:

Every last stinking version of Garamond ever made(!). Especially Adobe Garamond and the condensed version Apple uses. God, that asymmetrical capital 'T'!

Any Emigre font released after oh, 1993 or so. Especially the ones ending in '-plex'.

Interstate, Meta, and Scala ( Serif and Sans ). To me, they are pretentious and ugly as Hell.

Ray Larabie fonts. Sorry, Ray; you seem like a nice guy. :')

Guilty pleasures:

Corel Draw. I will never stop using it. Ever.

The original Macintosh. They're so _cute_!

Graphic Design from the 1980's. Especially that California school stuff with the wiggly lines and triangles flying everywhere. :')

Fonts I love that probably aren't cool:

Old-school Emigre fonts, like Matrix and Senator

The Cooper family ( Black, medium and light )

Cooper Light has the best ampersand ever!

Goudy Oldstyle and Heavyface


Scriptorium fonts. Especially Abbadon.

Sumner Stone's font family. I rather like Stone Informal, the 'business casual' of fonts.

Fonts from Apostrophe's Lab

Finding perfect knock-offs of hideously expensive font families on ten dollar font CDs bought at Office Depot

I like Comic Sans!!! Don't listen to font cops and design nazis, use it wherever you feel like it! As long as it looks good. :')

John Boren

Bizarro World Designer #1

On Oct.25.2002 at 10:07 PM
Sam’s comment is:


*Mike Salisbury--The David Lee Roth of graphic design.

*We Work For Them--If The Designer's Republic were Nirvana then WWFT would be The Vines.

*Praystation--I still don't see what all the fuss is about.

*Design is Kinky's new look--Horrible.

Guilty Pleasures:

*Pen and Pixel--Some folks find their work gaudy but their album covers (Master P, Juvenile) are so over-the-top that they're brilliant.

*Big Magazine--It's expensive, has little-to-no written content, and its publishers probably take themselves way too seriously but it's a beautiful publication.

On Oct.26.2002 at 09:44 AM
rorie’s comment is:

things that get on my tits (metaphorically speaking)

>the 3d photoshop atmospheric thing. *sigh* they'll get over it...

>this hi tech flash thing (2advancedstudios.com). another fad

>money sucking corporate companies. i dont buy nike. i dont eat at mcdonalds. are you doing your bit?

>people who dont have opinions. please use your brain.


>rip off bands. + courtney love... oh and them 'manufactured' pop bands, whats happening to the music industry!??

>Arriva Trains - bastards.

>the graphic design industry.

things i like.

>bikes. probably the finest piece of engineering for human powered transport and the best use of the wheel IMHO

>radiohead - yes you can buy their music from hmv, but they can think for themselves, make 'effective' music, and dont buy into corporate bulls**t.

>the beatles.

>smart design.

On Oct.26.2002 at 10:30 AM
Kevin’s comment is:

A little off topic, but Rorie's post reminded me of a film I have to see again, Radiohead's dystopic Meeting People is easy. A beautiful piece of work. Comments?

And I suppose I should throw some Loves and Hates into the mix.

I hate David Carson for ripping off and commercialising the deconstructionist experiments of youndg designers in the 80s. I love David Carson for showing it to me.

I hate the DiK's of the net for supposing to be representative of graphic design, but even more I hate the fact that I check all those sites everyday.

I hate weworkforthem. And no, it's not a cool name.

I hate the fact that Eye magazine can charge $40(Canadian) an issue and get away with shoddy, uninspired, and uncritical writing.

I love Futura, plain and simple.

On Oct.26.2002 at 01:39 PM
Jon’s comment is:

I love that I work from my home. I hate that I live in the New York metro area.

I love my collection of old type specimen books.

I hate clients with convictions based on market research instead of their own beliefs and values.

I hate designers who insist on denying the commercial value of what designers do.

I hate that more organizations don't believe in the commercial value of what designers do.

I hate Pantone 286. I hate even more that I've used it.

I love letterpress. I hate that I don't have my own press.

Ok, got some aggression out. Feel better now.

On Oct.26.2002 at 03:59 PM
Armin’s comment is:

I love Dead History by Scott Makela. So much, in fact, that I set my thesis (all 80 pages of it) in 10 pt. Dead History.

I like all Emigre fonts, including Missionary.

I think John Maeda is a genius. Even when every site mentions how 'cool' he is.

I payed $50 for this issue of Emigre.

I enjoy burning CD's with fonts from former employers. Whoever says that they have paid for every single font they use is a liar.

I love my Graphite iMac DV at home: It's small, it's cramped, I'm developing a strain on my neck because it sits so low on my desk even after putting the yellow pages below it, if flash animations are set at more than 12 fps it won't display at the right speed, it crashes at least twice per session and I can't have more than three applications running at the same time. But I can see the inside of the computer with it's translucent graphite cover. And "comet" the reindeer loves sitting on top of it.

On Oct.26.2002 at 04:42 PM
Armin’s comment is:

Oh! and I L-O-V-E awards. I Love getting that letter that says 'congratulations' or the email that starts with 'Your work has been selected...'. I get pissed when they don't select my work, and curse the jurors for their incompetence and their lack of knowledge of good design. I enjoy seeing my name next to my work on a magazine or a book. Call it shallow if you want. I call it competitiveness and wanting to be the best at what you do. I think people who say they don't like awards is because they have never gotten any.

There. I said it.

On Oct.26.2002 at 04:52 PM
Ben’s comment is:

I hate arial and chicago. I make purchasing decisions based on this. ("Huh, this looks interesting, wait, is that arial?")

I hate how "letterpress printing" to some means so much impression that it might as well be embossed.

I hate word and excel.

I think that designer = star is silly.

I hate netscape 4.7

On Oct.27.2002 at 08:02 PM
nigel davido’s comment is:

It's so easy to say what you hate.

It's so brave to say what you like.

This page was so fucking cool to read.

Thanks, everybody!

On Jun.08.2004 at 02:14 AM
Maya Drozdz’s comment is:

Define yourself not only by what you secretly love, but also by what you’ve been afraid to say you can’t stand.

I've definitely enjoyed this thread; I suppose it's been a guilty pleasure for me. What I cannot stand is its lack of author- and ownership. I can take the the good, the bad, and the ugly but, please, if you're asking for dirty secrets, can you at least own your own request?

On Jun.08.2004 at 07:26 PM
Danielle’s comment is:

This game is fun!

Things I can’t stand:

1. I hate it when designers don’t use smart quotes. It drives me crazy when I see inch and foot marks used as apostrophes and quotations.

2. I hate it when designers don’t use hanging quotes, too. It’s easy to do, especially in InDesign.

3. Typefaces I hate: Template Gothic, Base, Impact, and faces that are supposed to look hand-drawn.

4. New Wave graphic design from the 80s.

5. Emigré writers whine too much. I can’t read it anymore —�it brings me down.

6. Museum & gallery openings... and also the people who make sure you know they saw the latest artsy indie film and then “had cocktails” at this week’s trendiest bar in Los Feliz or Silverlake.

Things I like:

1. Awful local cable tv advertising. Hilarious!

2. National Park Maps & US Geological Service Topographic Maps

3. Trading work with my friends

4. Typefaces I like: Thesis, Akzidenz Grotesk, the Walker typeface (I would love to use that one!), and Filosofia

5. I love (like Jon) that I work from home most of the time

6. I love bitching about how evil Wal-Mart is, but I also love their low-low prices.

On Jun.08.2004 at 08:09 PM
Armin’s comment is:

Maya, this is simply a blip in the blog continuum. The author of this thread is Tom Deja. He used to be an author on Speak Up when we first started. He is part of the little-known "first class of Speak Up". He also wrote one of my favorite threads: Can't With, Can't Without. I have an asigned "Long gone author" to most of the "authorless" threads, I think I might have missed the ones by Tom.

On Jun.08.2004 at 08:42 PM
Albert’s comment is:

I love Stern in the morning especially Captain Jinks.

I can't stand the Stern commercials.

I hate when I end up listening to Laura Slesinger in the afternoon, so depressing.

I hate afternoon radio, its the worst.

Phil Hendrie saves the 7-10 slot.

I love that when I go into Trader Joes I feel like a great designer.

Someone needs to do something about the Ceazane fallout.)

On Jun.08.2004 at 10:43 PM
justin m’s comment is:

Wow, I'm depressed that a few of the people that really made me want to learn more about design (wwft, david carson, joshua davis) are ill regarded. I admit they are not the best or greatest but they inspired me to learn how to design rather than just mimick other people's like I did when I started.

So now for my guilty pleasures:

pop music

hawaiian shirts

books by Irvin Wlesh and Hunter S. Thompson

romantic comedies

shopping at Target

Things I love:

Helvetica and Garamond

simple line drawings that lack detail

Speak Up!

Breakfast at Tiffany's

Things I don't love:

Design school

Design school teachers

dirty dishes

On Jun.09.2004 at 10:24 AM
Armin’s comment is:

I love that this thread is being revisited.

On Jun.09.2004 at 10:46 AM
Shahla’s comment is:

Century Schoolbook, Univers, Bodoni, Meta, Orator, Bell Centennial, Trixie, are just some of the fonts I like to 'play' with -

Can't stand pixelated fonts; but might've used Matrix once while in school -at which couldn't stand Petrula Vrontikis.

On Jun.10.2004 at 01:36 AM
schmitty’s comment is:

I hate QuarkXpress

On Jun.10.2004 at 06:26 PM