Does This Type Make Me Look Slimmer?

Since my youthful video game exploits are oddly well documented here on Brand New, I’ll add to the well with another bit of useless personal information. It being that the last console I owned was an original PlayStation, which I wore out with several seasons of NBA Live. Since then, of course, two far more advanced generations of PlayStation have come into existence, with PlayStation 3 being the most recent. This September, without delving into Generation Four territory, PlayStation officially unveiled the latest update featuring a slimmer hardware design along with other software improvements and a streamlined new logo.

PS3 console before and after. Console images [source]: ©2009 Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. All rights reserved.

Concurrently with the release of the new PS3 system, SCE will modify the PS3 brand name from “PLAYSTATION 3” to “PlayStation 3”, and introduce a new [PS3] logo, which is engraved on the surface of the new PS3 system. By unifying under the familiar “PlayStation®” name, which represents the entire PlayStation family, PS3 together with PlayStation®2 and PSP® (PlayStation®Portable) will further expand the PlayStation business, and will continue to enhance the entertainment experience along with the ever-growing PlayStation®Network.
—Press Release

One of the most notorious, for better or for worse, traits of the previous PlayStation 3 logo was that it oddly looked just like the Spider-man movies, which, in turn was a derivative of Greg Samata’s Mata and/or Rick Valicenti’s Bronzo. Point being, for me, the PlayStation 3 never looked or felt like an original logo or something that could be singly tied to the console, always drawing comparisons to the $2 billion franchise. In exchange for the spidey font, PS3 is set in the same minimalist approach of the more visually successful PS2 (PlayStation 2) and PSP (PlayStation Portable) logos.

Family of PlayStation logos currently on the market.

But instead of a delicate mono-weight and geometric drawing, like the PS2 and PSP, we have what would be a Humanist lettering job, with different thicknesses that don’t look quite pleasant. It’s a fine logo to be honest, but there is something about it that is not quite fully well executed, with odd curves and horizontal lines that are just too long — you would need a full tank of gas to get through that 3. It’s also close enough to the PS2 and PSP logos that I wonder if it shouldn’t have just been the same. Although I’m sure we will be seeing less of the PS2 soon enough, leaving only the PSP and PS3 logos, with the latter as the older and more robust sibling. Regardless, it’s nice to see the old lettering fade away.

New PS3 Slim. Console images [source]: ©2009 Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. All rights reserved.

Thanks to Christopher M. Yates for first tip.

Paul Cooley’s comment is:

First off…good morning Armin.

I’m glad someone else saw the Spidey-resemblance. It is really to close for comfort. As for the new logo, I think a simple insertion of the 3 could have made for a good logo to add to the family. The new humanist take is cumbersome, especially when it is emblazoned on the console at such a massive scale.

Here is to hoping that they just release a good old fashioned 2-d/3-d old school castlevania game to make up for this loopy mark.

On Sep.16.2009 at 05:16 AM

Loren Shumaker-Chupp’s comment is:

This isn’t terrible, it’s just boring. The PS logos have been the same PS_ for so long I’m having trouble caring about this mark and it’s strive for overly futuristic techyness.

On Sep.16.2009 at 05:37 AM

Loren Shumaker-Chupp’s comment is:

We’re we voting on the old logos spidey similarity or is their one in the new one I’m missing? The old one was scary similar but I can’t find any spiderman marks similar to the new one.

On Sep.16.2009 at 05:43 AM

Rob O.’s comment is:

I’ve always been aware of the Spiderman logo similarity, but I think I prefer that to the new lackluster version.

And there’s one of the new Dodge cars - Charger maybe? - that has a lettering style that also very similar to the Spidey…

On Sep.16.2009 at 06:21 AM

martin’s comment is:

It was the exact same font as the spiderman-font. Sony owns the font and it was meant to be the same. i must admit it looked a bit odd, especially on the cover of the Spiderman-games for ps3…
I hate the new logo, they should definitely have made it in the same style as ps2 and psp. It looks tacky, child-techish and cheap. Like a fake version of the original ps3. doesn’t match with the design of the ps3s menu either.

On Sep.16.2009 at 06:28 AM

Josh’s comment is:

Forget the logo, the box itself is much better now too! I hated that shiny surface, it always made it feel cheap. Now it looks like something that might almost cost as much as it does.

On Sep.16.2009 at 06:42 AM

Jack’s comment is:

It would have been just fine if they stuck to the original logo (from the PS2, PSP, etc). Now you need to compare the new game boxes.

On Sep.16.2009 at 06:51 AM

Ivan’s comment is:

Erm…to me it looks way too like the type Japanese car manufacturers used like 3 or 4 years ago (some other Japanese businesses still use typeface like this - notably on air conditioners) - maybe a bit slanted. It speaks Japanese, yes - but we all know that Sony is a Japanese company, so what’s the point. I think sticking to the “sticky” look of PS2 and PSP would be a good idea.

On Sep.16.2009 at 07:13 AM

obse.’s comment is:

I love that tiny little Helvetica there. Just love it.

On Sep.16.2009 at 07:39 AM

nlx’s comment is:

Well its okay, i just like the contrast with the clean baseline ‘playstation’

Too lame the other PS logo seems now incoherent

On Sep.16.2009 at 07:39 AM

Luke S’s comment is:

THE OLD LOGO: The old version was fine to be honest. It resonated with people who were serious about gaming, but just a wordmark alone doesn’t really seal the psychological deal with brand identity.
In all honesty, I am an avid PS3 owner/gamer. It’s my favorite toy! But in all this time having it, I couldn’t even tell you what the logo looked like (let alone making the correlation with the Spidey font). “Hmm… I think it’s italic”. I won’t be sad to see it go, but at the same time, it looks cool emblazoned on the side of my PS3 anyway.

THE NEW LOGO: This makes so much sense, especially seeing it side-by-side with the older logos. The only thing I don’t like about it is the weird curve in the P that makes it look like a question mark. Other than that, this logo has been a positive identifier with the brand. After seeing it in advertising here and there, it really has stuck-out in my mind. Finally they gave the PS3 a logo (somewhat) worthy of this incredible machine.

On Sep.16.2009 at 08:09 AM

J. Aron’s comment is:

I’m a fan of the slimmer box and matte finish… The new logo does a good job reminding us how bad the previous spidey version was. Unfortunately, now its close enough to the PS2 and PSP logos to remind us how much better they are. Here’s hoping PS4 straightens things out.

On Sep.16.2009 at 08:11 AM

Benga’s comment is:

Why i’m not really a big fan of video games, i do care about their designs and look and feel. The logo in it self look a little bit too bland, however it the application of it on the new slimmed down console look very good. It’s very minimalist compare to the all cap previous console logo.

To side with everyone else that mentioned something about the “3” in the PS3 logo, having an unmistakable resemblance to the Spiderman 3 logo is not lying. I saw the spiderman logos upon looking at the new design.

Benga creative

On Sep.16.2009 at 08:21 AM

Bob’s comment is:

If they keep on flattening and simplifying their logo, eventually it’s going to be just a horizontal line.

On Sep.16.2009 at 08:23 AM

Nick’s comment is:

I concur with what everyone is saying.

They should have just continued the logo family…

On Sep.16.2009 at 08:26 AM

G*’s comment is:

I like the black on black, it looks very slick. Nice typography and evolution.

On Sep.16.2009 at 08:28 AM

emory’s comment is:

Does the kerning between the P and S bother anyone else besides me? I want it to be nudged over just a couple more clicks.

On Sep.16.2009 at 08:29 AM

Matt’s comment is:

The Spider-man rip off has always bothered me. I’m so happy to see that logo abandoned and a new, custom solution take its place. While very minimal, almost to the point of blah, this new logo hits the mark and should serve the brand quite well. It looks great on the product and I’m looking forward to seeing how it will be used in marketing campaigns. It’s like the visual opposite of the XBOX 360 logo which has the finely-illustrated, ubiquitous steel orb. This intentional, aesthetic differentiation is a smart move on Sony’s part, in my opinion.

On Sep.16.2009 at 08:40 AM

Matt’s comment is:

Thanks for posting about this - you capture my feelings on it pretty well. As much as I appreciated the minimalism of the PS2 logo when it first came out, that sort of forced futurism does feel a little tired to me now. On the other hand, even though this is definitely a more organic take on the same concept, it still feels like it’s trying far too hard to be cool.

Which, for a game console, and for their demographic in particular, is understandable… it just makes me feel cheap for owning one. On the other hand, the type on the Xbox 360 logo is just clean and classy. And the Wii really nails the right balance between minimalism and humanism.

Still… this is a big step up for Sony. I’m happy for them. Their new TV campaign is surprisingly hilarious. Let’s hope they keep moving in a new direction.

On Sep.16.2009 at 09:02 AM

Stefano Picco’s comment is:

Great wayback Design :)

On Sep.16.2009 at 09:02 AM

Chip O'Toole’s comment is:

My question is why?

If it’s still a PS3 why are you rebranding it? If it’s only for the reason of an updated system and new marketing effort, I say not good enough reason. Do a full blown rebrand for the PS4, leave it alone for now even if it looks like spidey.

This new iteration seems forced and unnecessary. Although I do think the helvetica type treatment works for the ad campaign, it’s too stark under the PS3 logo.

On Sep.16.2009 at 09:40 AM

Derek Dietrich-Muller’s comment is:

Agree with J. Aron’s comment on the ID for the housing.

The Playstation 3 housing was a behemoth and it’s buldging shiny surface only highlighted that more. Glad they finally slimmed that down.
Still miss the Frank L. Wright style Playstation and PS2.

I do really dig the embossed name on the textured surface of the new machine

On Sep.16.2009 at 09:41 AM

Mario’s comment is:

The “3” reads more like a “B”

On Sep.16.2009 at 09:59 AM

Violet’s comment is:

I have loved Playstation since it began, and I always felt that the PS2 logo was HORRIBLE. Every playstation logo from the very beginning was aweful, then came the Playstation 3. So what if it has similarities to the Spiderman font, it was very sleek, stylish, and sexy. It was the future. But this, PS3… it almost looks like they’re going back to the drab and boring aweful PS? logos.

It isn’t as aweful as the PS2, but it sure doesn’t win my vote. Playstation 3 > PS3

That P and S… hell the entire type of that logo is lame. The acronym PS3 is fine, but for the font, SOMETHING ELSE PLEASE!

On Sep.16.2009 at 10:07 AM

JC’s comment is:

Are you sure this isnt just a Chinese or Russian knock-off? The whole look (logo, type and product design) all look cheap.

PS3 coming to Big Lots everywhere.

On Sep.16.2009 at 10:18 AM

AM’s comment is:

When a logo, like this, is going to be seen mostly in its engraved format—the gamers who turn on their PS3 everyday—more attention should be paid to it’s contextual use. In the image above, the light hitting the plastic and creating highlights in the letters, not to mention the overall feel of black on black, is a drastic improvement over the vector logo on white. I’m a big fan of the older monoline logos, but implementations of the logo should never be overlooked.

On Sep.16.2009 at 10:40 AM

Bill Dawson (XK9)’s comment is:

“Does this bomb make my ass look fat?”

On Sep.16.2009 at 10:48 AM

Jacob’s comment is:

The new logo is a wonderful change, and it’s about time. The spidey-font bugged me from the beginning.

Apparently the primary reason for the change was that, when shrunk down for advertising, it was barely readable at all. Just a fuzzy little line on TV ads for multi-console games, where the other consoles’ squarish logos stood out. Even at the top of this page it’s easy to see: The new logo completely dominates the old logo in terms of visibility.

Anyway, the only thing that’s funny to me is that they went with Helvetica for the full name underneath the logo, rather than the long-established (and recently tweaked) PlayStation “family” logotype like with the PS2.

On Sep.16.2009 at 10:52 AM

Bendy’s comment is:

It’s about time - the original PS3 mark was horrendous. All I ever saw was Spiderman 2. I mean, seriously… did they even consider making a tweak to the typeface before slapping it on their $600 console? Seems careless.

That having been said, the new mark still falls short of the original Playstation logo as well as the PS2/PSP marks. The updated mark looks oddly outdated when stacked against the first two…. Wipeout anyone?

Considering Sony is trying to convince everyone that the PS3 is the future of games / digital entertainment, it seems they’d be able to come up with something stronger than this.

On Sep.16.2009 at 10:54 AM

Andrew Javorsky’s comment is:

As a 13-year PlayStation gamer, I have to say that I’m glad that SCEA decided to create the PS3 logo and stop using the Spiderman font http://www.fontstock.net/3966/homoarakhn.html . It’s very nostalgic to PSone and PS2 users. While not great in execution, it is certainly a step above the previous wordmark. Also, note that the original “PS” lockup has continued on all Sony consoles from the original in 1995: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4e/Playstation_logo_colour.svg/134px-Playstation_logo_colour.svg.png

On Sep.16.2009 at 10:54 AM

Dave Werner’s comment is:

Chip O’Toole Said: “If it’s still a PS3 why are you rebranding it? If it’s only for the reason of an updated system and new marketing effort, I say not good enough reason. Do a full blown rebrand for the PS4, leave it alone for now even if it looks like spidey.”

I’d argue it was an absolutely necessary move. The PS3 has been struggling at #3 in this current generation (behind the Wii and 360) and needed something to push it back into the running - although the $100 price drop is probably more important than the logo for achieving that. I think we’ll see a lot more mid-cycle console rebrandings in the future - Xbox’s NXE update changed its entire menu/dashboard system and made it feel like a completely new system (and I bet next year’s Project Natal will have the same effect).

On Sep.16.2009 at 11:33 AM

G. Alex’s comment is:

going for curves… could’ve been thicker…

On Sep.16.2009 at 11:41 AM

Chuck Spidell’s comment is:

Pairing the product name below the logo is awkward and redundant. Gamers knows what they’re buying. And that tiny font is not going to scale well - the website proves it. The kerning between the P and S needs tightening. The box redesign is killer.

On Sep.16.2009 at 12:16 PM

Dennis Van Staalduinen’s comment is:

I’m cool with the font change, but PlayStation’s biggest asset is its powerful name. “PS3” is fine as a consumer nickname or a secondary element in graphics, but three letters will never match a strong name. I’d still advise them to spell it out in primary applications and especially on the box.

On Sep.16.2009 at 12:34 PM

Mr. Mufasa’s comment is:

Compared to what their competitors are putting out, PS3 rebranding is boring but it may be the move they need to sell more consoles.

On Sep.16.2009 at 12:57 PM

Morning Toast’s comment is:

As a life-long gamer to this day, when I saw a headline about Playstation changing their logo I was expecting something big. Much bigger than the discontinuation of the Spider-Man logo.

I thought the PSP/PS2 logos were hideous. The over-squareness just made it look dated at release.

I think Playstation needs to pick an iconic logo and really just tack on the “Playstation” in text. The triangle+square+circle+X logo they sometimes use, I like, and I think *that* should be their logo. Far more universal and can be used in various contexts.

What’s the difference between the PS2 and PS3 logo? Curviness. Big whoop.

Not enough change and certainly not warranting of a huge “we changed our logo” announcement. Bah.

On Sep.16.2009 at 01:05 PM

Chip O'Toole’s comment is:

Dave Werner said: I’d argue it was an absolutely necessary move. The PS3 has been struggling at #3 in this current generation (behind the Wii and 360) and needed something to push it back into the running

I would argue that still is not a good enough reason to rebrand a product. And the Xbox NXE was an interface update, not a rebranding. The product can get “back in the running” by price drops, hardware/software upgrades, and ad campaigns.

On Sep.16.2009 at 01:23 PM

mm’s comment is:

Why the spidey font? Because the CEO insisted on it.

It’s not a knockoff, it’s the same font. I’m not sure if it was a cross marketing ploy, or what, but Sony had the font created for Spiderman, and the CEO of the Computer Entertainment division demanded that it be used for the PS3.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/03/29/ken-kutaragi-insisted-on-spider-man-font-for-ps3/

The CEO has since stepped down, and apparently it’s time to change the font too.

On Sep.16.2009 at 02:24 PM

Luke S’s comment is:

The PS3’s interface was updated the same time this logo was released. Duh.

On Sep.16.2009 at 03:30 PM

JC’s comment is:

How long did they sit in front of their computer before landing on Helvetica? 30 seconds?

On Sep.16.2009 at 04:09 PM

Johnny Socko’s comment is:

“Anyway, the only thing that’s funny to me is that they went with Helvetica for the full name underneath the logo, rather than the long-established (and recently tweaked) PlayStation “family” logotype like with the PS2.”

Thank you Jacob, that is exactly what I was wondering. I figured they would either adapt the family logotype for the PlayStation 3, or convert the other logotypes to Helvetica. So, now they’re perpetuating the brand disparity.

Let’s not forget that there is also a PlayStation family logo, as noted by Andrew Javorsky above (the multicolor “PS”). I believe this logo only appears on the PS3 console as a tiny emblem. It may appear larger on the retail packaging, but my point is that the application of this logo has always been haphazard.

Oh, and I always thought the Spiderman font was extremely lame on the PS3. Yet another of Kutaragi’s bad decisions.

On Sep.16.2009 at 04:22 PM

Joseph Maguire’s comment is:

I actually dig this brand change, it’s softer, it’s sleeker. I wouldn’t say it is slimmer but it is a little less aggressive and for that I commend them for trying to reach a broader audience.

On Sep.16.2009 at 04:40 PM

Mark’s comment is:

While I do like the new logo (and believe me it is a BIG improvement) I don’t like the new console design it seems so pedestrian compared to the old one. the old one was pardon me a like video gamers wet dream and has nice sports car like styling.

I still remember how much in awe I was when I first got the Playstation 3 as a Christmas gift, I can’t see the same reaction with the new design, I just can’t.

But I agree That the old logo was way too close to the Spiderman logo, I’m surprised they didn’t get sued for using the same typeface.

I still remember getting my first Playstation back in the 90’s before it broke. That was one sleek design back then, it was state of the art at the time.

On Sep.16.2009 at 05:16 PM

ben K’s comment is:

Not bad. The huge registered-trademark symbol crapped out into the middle of the wordmark “Playstation®3” sure looks distracting, though.

b

On Sep.16.2009 at 05:41 PM

Mark’s comment is:

I’m sorry after seeing the full application of what the console looks like, I actually like it, it looks slimmer and sleeker.

Good redesign.

On Sep.16.2009 at 06:12 PM

Mark’s comment is:

I’m sorry after seeing the full application of what the console looks like on the website, I actually like it, it looks slimmer and sleeker.

Good redesign.

On Sep.16.2009 at 06:13 PM

Glenn Sakamoto’s comment is:

The logotype is well drawn and appropriate to the product. Well done.

On Sep.16.2009 at 08:21 PM

Mujiri’s comment is:

Hmm, prefer the slim modern look of the PSP and PS2 logo. The new PS3 logo feels more robust but the “3” seems to be masquerading as a “B”, so the letters “PSB” springs to mind.

On Sep.16.2009 at 10:29 PM

Vitezslav Valka’s comment is:

I love the new PS3 even that I have the old thick one. New typo is much much better! Even that it’s not looking slimmer, but the previous PS3 typography looked a bit backwardish…

On Sep.17.2009 at 04:09 AM

Andrew_EMPAC’s comment is:

It’s a huge improvement but i like how the acronym has to be explained in Helvetica Bold!

On Sep.17.2009 at 12:34 PM

Luke S’s comment is:

Ain’t nothing wrong with Helvetica. It’s better than Arial.

On Sep.17.2009 at 01:03 PM

Cameron Jantzen’s comment is:

Looks better on product than in isolation. That’s important.

On Sep.17.2009 at 06:59 PM

Benjamin McKenna’s comment is:

I always hated the Playstation Font, something about the bump in the Y and the wide tracking bugged me. I actually much prefer the new “PS3” logo to the thinner “PS2”, but that S still doesn’t read right to me. Either that, or the P and S need to be kerned a little closer.

On Sep.18.2009 at 08:56 AM

PG’s comment is:

Sony is the studio behind the Spider-Man (note the CORRECT way to spell Spider-Man hehe) movies so it was both understandable and weird to see the same application for the old PS3 logo. Maybe they were trying to save a few dollars. Ha!

I don’t mind the new logo, but also wonder why it couldn’t just be the same as the other PlayStation logos given the similarities.

On Sep.18.2009 at 09:38 AM

Jen’s comment is:

I agree the old logo looked like the Spiderman movie logos.

To me this goes beyond just visual to (additionally) a problem of context - you’re talking about essentially the same market for both the movies and the games. Which I think made the whole thing confusing. Amazing how sometimes the font can BE the brand.

I agree that the proportions of the new logo feel off. But I do like the engraving - it’s quite sexy. I am almost wondering if the thicker weights have to do with the engraving itself, like maybe the logo was lost in the thinner letters when engraved and that drove the design decision?

On Sep.18.2009 at 01:37 PM

todd zakk’s comment is:

nobody will really notice a difference. people already called it PS3 anyways.

On Sep.18.2009 at 01:59 PM

kirk’s comment is:

it always bugged me that around the time the “before” logo came out the Spiderman movie that was coming out was using the exact same font. I just assumed it was some kind of joint release of a game and the system.

On Sep.18.2009 at 02:27 PM

Mog’s comment is:

I know I’m a few days late on this one (I’m a huge gamer, so I was critiquing the branding as soon as it was announced leaked, ha ha) but one reason given for the logo change is that the old PLAYSTATION 3 logo was very wide, which caused it to appear very small in many applications (just look at the before/after above!). Next to the Xbox 360 logo in a magazine ad or on a billboard, the PLAYSTATION 3 type disappeared. The old logo simply didn’t function properly, which is why it needed to be improved (even outside of any desire for a change event, which the PS3 certainly needed).

On the front of PS3 game packaging, you will often see “PlayStation” in up to three different fonts - the classic Zrnic logo in the “Only on PlayStation” tag, the Helvetica wordmarked used in the PSP and PlayStation Network (and now PS3) logos, and the all-caps SPIDEYFONT. So now that’s just down to two (not including the new curvy “PS3” symbol).

On Sep.20.2009 at 09:08 PM

grooverider’s comment is:

The one thing that isn’t mentioned in this entire chain is that the PSP, PS2, and PS3 will barely be shown alone on both video game packaging or on advertising. They are often attached with the PS family logo (the one with the P standing upright and S lying in space) or with their newly developed Playstation Network mark. Unfortunately I know entirely too much about this brand update because I work on video game packaging templates. If anyone wants to see the style guide I have it and will try to post in tomorrow.

On Sep.21.2009 at 01:35 AM

Marboleda’s comment is:

Thank god change, lot like spiderman, how the designer did’t see the spiderman movie? lol.

On Sep.21.2009 at 05:54 PM

Mog’s comment is:

I would love to see the style guide, grooverider!

On Sep.22.2009 at 12:35 AM

Kid72’s comment is:

UG! UG! UG! close up the P + S and drop the 90’s curves - psp + ps2 better…

On Sep.22.2009 at 01:12 AM

David Boni’s comment is:

Nothing tops the original PS for me as far as game console logos go, but this is a VAST improvement over that horrible, horrible, terrible Spiderman font.

I actually prefer the square and thin PS2 logo over this, however.

On Sep.22.2009 at 03:35 PM

Paul’s comment is:

Any modifications to the logo or branding to distance the Playstation brand from the horrible Spiderman movies is an improvement in my eyes.

On Sep.23.2009 at 11:40 AM

Pennsylvania workers compensation lawyer’s comment is:

The new logo is nice. The idea of softer edges works for me, as it represents the new console more than the old.

On Sep.30.2009 at 10:58 AM

Josh’s comment is:

I do have to say that I love this logo just because it’s NOT their old one. I mean, what the hell were they thinking with that old logo anyway?

On Nov.24.2009 at 07:32 PM

Jameson Flynn’s comment is:

thats one of the best articles i have read recently on this problem thank you

On Dec.09.2009 at 05:39 AM

Philadelphia workers compensation lawyer’s comment is:

I too think they should have stuck to their logo guns and just supplanted a 3. Had they stuck with this it would have been a good precedent that could have been stuck with for the foreseeable future.

On Dec.09.2009 at 02:16 PM

Jeremy S’s comment is:

I don’t think the new logo looks bad, just a slightly updated version of the older PS2 logo. I’m glad they got rid of the Spidey font. I didn’t love the movies and that was what I immediately associated with it. I also give them a thumbs up for keeping the original “PS” logo on all the products that carry the Playstation name.

Still though, the XBox and Wii logo and packaging are hard to beat. Very sleek.

On Dec.12.2009 at 08:32 PM

winter olympics’s comment is:

Great logos the PS3 logos are awesome. I would say they are simple but smashing.

On Dec.23.2009 at 01:40 AM

desbest’s comment is:

logo is crap. logo is still crap.

On May.26.2010 at 07:40 AM

Almeta Adonis’s comment is:

Also that we would do without your brilliant idea

On Jun.15.2010 at 09:34 AM