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Guest Editorial by James Bowie
When a city or town adopts a new logo, it’s inevitable that at least a few local taxpayers will exclaim, “You paid how much? For that?” Such complaints are typically unwarranted, but in the recent case of Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, the critics may have a point.
The city’s unique name refers to a riverside site where Native Americans would break cane stalks to make shafts for arrows. As a logo, the city had simply used the symbol from the Oklahoma state flag with a broken arrow added above.
In an effort to re-brand, Broken Arrow retained Kansas City’s Kuhn and Wittenborn Advertising, who produced a new logo featuring a wordmark in the now-gauche Papyrus typeface and an unbroken arrow that looks as though it could have been launched by the twin archers of the agency’s own mark.
The arrow has a long history as a logo design cliché. In 1978, Wally Olins railed against symbols “… ending with an arrow, preferably pointing upwards and slightly to the right, indicative of Progress, Dynamism and a controlled but powerful thrust towards what is clearly a Better and Brighter Future.” Broken Arrow’s logo is clearly trying to evoke similar sentiments, as the tagline “Where Opportunity Lives” indicates (it turns out that opportunity also lives in Prescott Valley, Arizona, which used the line first).
Perhaps this logo can be excused for cliché abuse, since it shows an actual, rather than symbolic, arrow. But the disjuncture between the symbol and the city name results in a visual oxymoron, a bit of surrealism worthy of René Magritte. And even putting this aside, it still seems a shame that a city with such an interesting name should sport such a mundane symbol.
James Bowie is a sociologist and researcher at Northern Arizona University. His Ph.D. dissertation examined patterns and trends in trademark design.
Jump to Most Recent Comment
Rosie’s comment is:
It looks very clunky and not well thought out. It's like they picked the first idea that came to them and went with it. The logo looks very outdated, not fresh at all, and there seems to be a lot of unnecessary elements.
Out of all the fonts in the world, they used Papyrus? Really? I thought that had the stigma of Comic Sans.
This could have been much more tastefully done, but instead it looks like it was thrown together at the last second.
On Oct.19.2007 at 08:54 AM
Jon Dascola’s comment is:
"...an unbroken arrow that looks as though it could have been launched by the twin archers of the agency’s own mark."
Hah. That's brilliant commentary.
On Oct.19.2007 at 09:12 AM
Josh Emerson’s comment is:
Really?!? Kuhn and Wittenborn Advertising, you had to choose Papyrus?! Really?!?
(i'd like to hear seth and amy do this one)
L.Vazquez’s comment is:
This is so empty. I've never heard of Broken Arrow... from this mark, I can only guess that it's some sort of town, only because I'm familiar with Broken Bow.
L.
On Oct.19.2007 at 09:27 AM
Nick’s comment is:
wow......if that was the final logo....then what came in second place !?
On Oct.19.2007 at 09:27 AM
L.Vazquez’s comment is:
Papyrus?
"Kuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhn!"
On Oct.19.2007 at 09:29 AM
michael’s comment is:
Slow week for Brand New? I think so. I am not sure it's to anyone benefit to discuss this logo's merits, or lack thereof.
In my opinion, Papyrus is a far worse type crime than Comic Sans for the simple fact that people recognize that Comic Sans is a horrible typeface, where Papyrus is used from anything that is fit for a pirate, Indian, or Crocodile Hunter. Ick.
On Oct.19.2007 at 09:38 AM
James A.’s comment is:
I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.
On Oct.19.2007 at 09:43 AM
Ty’s comment is:
Hey, if it's a new brand, we'll discuss it. No need to be get all design elite. Small time brands deserve witty commentary, too.
With each passing day, Papyrus inches closer and closer down the hole that Comic Sans has pioneered.
On Oct.19.2007 at 09:44 AM
Armin’s comment is:
> Slow week for Brand New? I think so.
Every now and then I think it's interesting to acknowledge work done outside of the mainstream sphere, specially if it has some cultural (or even comical) bent to it. Like the King County review we had a few months ago. Trust me, there is no shortage of big work to go over.
On Oct.19.2007 at 09:50 AM
zedzedeye’s comment is:
"Who else is gonna bring you A broken arrow...."
BWJ’s comment is:
Papyrus...
*sigh*
On Oct.19.2007 at 09:55 AM
C-Lo’s comment is:
Hmm. For some reason, it seems like like a 5 man IT company to me then a town's logo. I thought having a logo for a town helped bring commerce, and a certain sense of sophistication to an area, not a "Satisfaction guaranteed or your money back" mentality. I don't know maybe my wires are all crossed with this one. I cant think straight today. But to me it just gives off that "generic, hey I know how to work my clip art" Vibe to it. Can I move to Kansas City and work for K&W if that's all they expect from me? It's just too empty ( I can't think of a better word to describe it. ). Does it work? Yeah for a small time organization why not? I can see this in the Yellow book under Plumbers, or IT ( as mentioned before. Prob. right next to a Huge ad for Geek Squad ). But for a town that wants to attract people by it's looks. Let's try again. But it is an improvement from before. I can barely make that thing out.
And I am not even touching papyrus, I think everyone has done a fine, fine job ripping that font a new one.
On Oct.19.2007 at 10:07 AM
Ty’s comment is:
Does anyone else think it is interesting that the town is called Broken Arrow, but between the old logo and new logo, the arrow has magically become whole again?
On Oct.19.2007 at 10:18 AM
Josh Emerson’s comment is:
Yeah, I think the designers got their messages mixed.
"Native Americans would break cane stalks to make shafts for arrows"
I can see why you may not make the arrow broken, cause its about how they got the arrow, and not the fact that its actually broken. (Though making the logo like this means that everyone has to hear the explanation over and over - sucks for them), but doesn't this arrow feel like an arrow from greek mythology and not Native American?
On Oct.19.2007 at 10:32 AM
michael’s comment is:
I was kidding about the slow week. Quips and the Speak Up have been top shelf.
...Like the King County review we had a few months ago...
Indeed. I have to say that is far more interesting than this. The approach and reasoning was worthy of the read alone. The logo was icing on the cake.
I think this is just another beast. I have seen these stereotypical/cliché logos one too many times for my liking. Something just seems so wrong about them. I wonder if this is news worthy. Was there an interesting rationale? Where is the story? It just seems like a rather pedestrian mark that could be seen on any housing association's letterhead.
There is something wrong with Papyrus seeing the light of day, but that is beside the point. I am an avid reader of these and they are usually spot on (in my opinion) in why they are reviewed. This seems to be more quantity than quality.
Maybe I just have higher expectations when I see a new review on the front page. A quality site like this can do this to an avid reader.
On Oct.19.2007 at 10:37 AM
Tyler’s comment is:
Ok, here's my theory on how this logo came to be. This was a logo option that they did for their own identity but it never made its way to the business cards. They felt the dual archers "popped" more.
Recycling = a quick buck
On Oct.19.2007 at 11:17 AM
Ryan’s comment is:
I've never felt that a city needed or warranted a "professional logo." Cities aren't businesses trying to attract customers. Cities are groups of neighbors, and most cities want to show off their heritage and the general tone of the city.
Broken Arrow's original logo wasn't that pretty, but I'm quite certain that the residents had become accustomed to it and that the illustration pretty accurately mirrors the heritage of the city itself. This new logo throws all of the heritage away in favor of what could be the mark for a self-help specialist. I don't blame the ad agency, though. I blame the city for thinking it needed a new logo. In a situation like this, it really is better to form a committee: of citizens who could decide if they actually need a new logo or not.
On Oct.19.2007 at 11:33 AM
Colin’s comment is:
"Really?!? Kuhn and Wittenborn Advertising, you had to choose Papyrus?! Really?!?"
You got paid how much for that crap, Kuhn and Wittenborn Advertising? Really!? And after exhausting your entire library of fonts (you certainly had the budget to purchase a new one), you went with one that came with your operating system? Really?...
On Oct.19.2007 at 11:54 AM
Ben Leivian’s comment is:
Papyrus, huh? Well it could have been stretched Impact:
Anonymous’s comment is:
Cities and Towns need logos just as much as any other organization. Why shouldn't it be done by professionals? Cities do try to attract "customers" in the sense of attracting new residents and new business to the community. An "identity" gives a city just that and they have just as much (or more) for print collateral etc. How else do you define the city?
I agree with everyone here that this logo is an awful mess, and I agree that all heritage has been thrown out. This logo could have been done much better on all levels.
From the news posting, however, it looks like the firm started with the right approach when dealing with a municipality. Immediately following the comment from one resident stating how they wished for more community involvement, it describes what the community involvement was. A stakeholder group was developed, which appears to have involved all key groups of the community - including residents. It also says that internet input from the community was also encouraged.
As we all know, too many hands in the pot will ensure disaster, so you have to keep such committees on point. The overall goal has to stay in the forefront or you get something that fails on all counts. Sadly, it looks like that was the case here.
On Oct.19.2007 at 12:13 PM
g-sppud’s comment is:
Sorry - that's mine above.
On Oct.19.2007 at 12:14 PM
Bb’s comment is:
At least they didn't use the font Mistral!
On Oct.19.2007 at 12:33 PM
Juggling Jason’s comment is:
Everyone's freaked about papyrus but Trajan is on it's way also.
On Oct.19.2007 at 12:52 PM
Josh Emerson’s comment is:
Trajan and Papyrus should never be used in the same sentence. My apologies for using them in the same sentence.
Trajan is a classic, well designed, somewhat overused font. Papyrus is a poorly designed, over used novelty font.
On Oct.19.2007 at 01:00 PM
g-sppud’s comment is:
Well said.
On Oct.19.2007 at 01:22 PM
thebrokedown’s comment is:
My husband and I have a game where whoever spots Papyrus first in a given place wins. Pick up any newspaper, it will be in an advertisement (or many). Go to the convenience store, there it is on a package (or many). I used to have a certain fondness for it, but I'm all burned out now.
On Oct.19.2007 at 02:55 PM
Jeff’s comment is:
if i were doing a re-design
i would be overly tempted to use just the arrowhead due to the negative connotation in any broken object
needs something more that says community.. needs better color scheme, needs smaller slogan text.. maybe none at all
On Oct.19.2007 at 05:39 PM
Daniel Davidson’s comment is:
Does anyone know "THEIR" town logo? I sure don't!
Furthermore, did any of you stop to think that maybe, just maybe, there was a really great logo, and the city picked this one? Hmmm...Maybe? Or have all of you only had open minded clients who really didn't want it "their" way, but followed your royal advice and went with what you thought best?
Excuse my humble opionion if it does not belong, I did not mean to disturb the design "Gods!"
On Oct.19.2007 at 05:45 PM
Ty’s comment is:
Daniel,
Please remove the stick from your butt.
I would say that the majority of designers are cognisant of their surrounding logos.
We're glad that you have an opinion that hasn't been presented yet, and we welcome it, but that doesn't mean you should be a dick about it.
Just because we have opinions that are different than yours doesn't mean we think we are Gods.
On Oct.19.2007 at 05:53 PM
gigi’s comment is:
I'd like to hear the agency's point of view on the development of this logo. Having had personal experience working on projects for a city where a simple design passes through numerous committees and levels of administrative hell, public reviews and further redesign by committee ... common sense is abandoned and broken arrow become flying arrows.
Also, I'd bet that Kuhn and Wittenborn were hired in part because of their own logo.
On Oct.19.2007 at 07:19 PM
Anonymous’s comment is:
Trajan and Papyrus should never be used in the same sentence. My apologies for using them in the same sentence.
Trajan is a classic, well designed, somewhat overused font. Papyrus is a poorly designed, over used novelty font.
True true. You got me. *leaves with head hanging in shame*
On Oct.19.2007 at 11:08 PM
anonymous’s comment is:
This looks like something I would design. And I suck!
On Oct.20.2007 at 01:14 AM
Jeff’s comment is:
Concept? Where's the concept? Who's got the concept?
What a shame. Would love to see a local designer from Broken Arrow chime in with their thoughts.
On Oct.20.2007 at 09:40 AM
zedzedeye’s comment is:
City logo?
Is that like a city's Seal?
Yeah, we got one of those. Only its not too graphic. Has a few indians besides a river. I usually see it on the side of a police car, garbage can, or city document. For 60K, I can come up with a logo and a "marketing plan".
Jay’s comment is:
Why Papyrus?
Talk about 'straight to DVD' re-brands.
On Oct.20.2007 at 01:08 PM
Von Glitschka’s comment is:
He's crying again because it looks like another "HP LogoWorks.com" solution.
On Oct.20.2007 at 04:00 PM
Asen’s comment is:
Just imagine the pitch.
Actually, get a fork and stick it in your thigh, that, I imagine, would be quite similar.
And the profiles of those ad-agency folk on the website... they really top things off.
On Oct.20.2007 at 07:13 PM
ed mckim’s comment is:
Ty Says: Hey, if it's a new brand, we'll discuss it. No need to be get all design elite. Small time brands deserve witty commentary, too.
I feel like this is the essential problem with Brand New and other sites in this vein... it seems like there is an inherent initiative to root out bad design and sentence it to a public stoning. There are success stories that pop up on here every now and again, but even those turn into a pseudo-stoning, as a percentage of people always complain about the good logos too, and how bad they are...
while yes, there is an over abundance of bad design, sometimes subjecting it to this kind of thing seems silly... if this logo had been particularly and overtly racist, sexist, or controversial, i could see a place for it here.
but picking out just one example and throwing it into the fire, when everyone knows it's bad, it's inconsequential, local, and insignificant is a waste of my time, and i suppose a waste of other people's time too.
when the article about the hague's new logo showed up here a while ago, in the infancy of Brand New, i felt like it was a necessary critique, not just because i was the one who quipped it in February (number 68 for those who want to check) but because the hague is an internationally known capital for justice and peace, topped off with their decision of who did it, and his relatively appropriate result (appropriate to his skill set and mentality) and reasoning deserved a conversation. if the hague is going to put it on the line and do a redesign, they need to be up to par, and they deserved a big crit (and needed one badly during the process).
In other words, that was necessary to talk about.
so, I think that picking out an insignificant logo from a small town in Oklahoma to stone publicly for some kind of personal satisfaction under the guise of "it's a new brand, we'll discuss it" while ignoring the fact that it's pretty much just picking on the ugly duckling is exactly what elitism is.
On Oct.20.2007 at 10:48 PM
Asen Tsvyatkov’s comment is:
Dear Ed,
I agree that we should avoid wasting energy on inconsequential, "bad designs," i.e. ones that are just bad and there is little one can (or should) do to change them.
I, however, feel that it is important to defend the role of design in everyday life, especially when it comes in contact with local democracy and government. All the more if it is so affirmatively and universally horrible.
This is as close as the public comes to participating in the actual design process, so I think it is important that people in the industry address this with professionalism and respect.
If designers do not subject this sort of output to serious discussion in both aesthetic and strategic terms, and are willing to do something about it, the profession will always be susceptible to questionable practice and even more questionable reputation.
On Oct.21.2007 at 08:29 AM
Kevin M. Scarbrough’s comment is:
>>Daniel Davidson
>>Does anyone know "THEIR" town logo?
Yes.
>>Furthermore, did any of you stop to think that maybe, just maybe, there was a really great logo, and the city picked this one? Hmmm...Maybe?
Entirely possible, but it does not make the end solution a palatable design. A client can have whatever they want if they are willing to pay for it. Whether it works or not is an entirely different story.
On Oct.21.2007 at 11:08 AM
Jeunesse’s comment is:
I agree with ed, this review seems particularly vapid, I feel like we are bitching about Paris Hilton.
Really who cares?
Some substance worth debating please.
On Oct.21.2007 at 12:26 PM
Jeunesse’s comment is:
Asen Tsvyatkov’s wrote
"If designers do not subject this sort of output to serious discussion in both aesthetic and strategic terms"
The designer of the logo obviously didn't "subject their output to serious discussion in both aesthetic and strategic terms",
so why should we?
Kevin M. Scarbrough’s comment is:
James, I enjoyed the review. In the future, if possible, I'd love to see insight in the process for designing for the government. I'm about to start a project as an illustrator for a state web site and I have a feeling it is going to be a bit different then what I'm used to.
On Oct.21.2007 at 12:59 PM
Armin’s comment is:
> so, I think that picking out an insignificant logo from a small town in Oklahoma to stone publicly for some kind of personal satisfaction under the guise of "it's a new brand, we'll discuss it" while ignoring the fact that it's pretty much just picking on the ugly duckling is exactly what elitism is.
Ed, your points are valid. But I don't feel this is about elitism. Yes, it's clear that this logo has many obvious shortcomings both in its execution and small-marketness. But the fact is that for most designers reading Brand New, including me, this is the type of project that might land on our laps. It's very few designers that get to work on Wacom or Photoshop or PayPal, and even then they are one designer in a big group; so, to me, the relevance of reviewing logos like this one is that it hits a little closer to home and it's about elevating the necessity for better design at the local and regional level. "Stoning" the logo is not mere satisfaction (although it can be), it serves a purpose to exemplify good and bad practices of every kind of identity project.
And if, after this, we can make just one designer reconsider before using Papyrus, I think we've done our job.
On Oct.21.2007 at 01:10 PM
Former Broken Arrow Inhabitant’s comment is:
Ah, Papyrus... the thinking man's comic sans.
I am from Broken Arrow, and now a designer out of Oklahoma City. This logo lacks in concept, originality, and visual appeal. It represents nothing that has to do with the town or its people. If I weren't from there, I wouldn't be given any reason to want to visit based simply off of this mark. Frankly, the name of the town itself is strange enough, and I would have thought that simple fact would pose a great opportunity to come up with a great logo that warrants great design. It's obvious that this was just fleshed out and no problems have been solved here...
On Oct.21.2007 at 07:47 PM
andrew miller’s comment is:
see i think the collective opinions here on Brand New are like that unforgiving professor you had in college. its who you think of when you're doing a project. "what would Brand New readers say?" is sort of a check and balance to make sure you're doing your duty as a designer.
everybody here asks all the right questions (for the most part). does it say what it means? is it appealing? is it legible? is it applicable? these are all things we bitch about when we post on here...
thats not elitism. thats practicing your profession.
On Oct.22.2007 at 09:52 AM
j’s comment is:
Does anyone know "THEIR" town logo? I sure don't!
Er, yes?
But all that's required here is that you actually look around, it's everywhere.
On Oct.22.2007 at 11:52 AM
Andrew Kidd’s comment is:
I am so sick of Papyrus. It's got to be the most wrongly used font at this time.
On Oct.22.2007 at 01:10 PM
Okie’s comment is:
Logos should not make anyone want to visit a town. A logo is an identifier, its not an ad. It just conveys the essence of an entity in a format that encourages remembering the identity.
Papyrus? - geez, hatred for fonts seems so immature. Comic sans, fajita, papyrus, and all the other trendy 'fonts-to-hate' du jour just show an insecurity with understanding type. Do you think the citizen in Broken Arrow feels disgust at a specific typeface?
C-Lo’s comment is:
Guess we found out who at K&W designed the logo.
On Oct.24.2007 at 12:48 PM
C-Lo’s comment is:
P.S. What logo Isn't an identifier? What logo doesn't try to get the viewers attention and try to stay there? I didn't wanna throw stones at anyone here, but without logos that portray or have a message, then what need is there for graphic artists? We might as well not even create paint or ink that have colors. black on white reads fine. Why do cars have certain looks? They should all be generic and efficent in that Silver , grey. We are here to get across a message with visuals.
But there is a true hatred for some junk fonts. With a logo where the whole logo is clean sharp lines, why would you use a letter style that looks like it barely survived a paper shredder? I will say papyrus can be used properly, but it's like using brush script when you want a hand written look.
On Oct.24.2007 at 01:00 PM
Local Designer’s comment is:
I live near Broken Arrow... BA is actually a suburb of Tulsa, and one that is about 100,000 people and growing. Smaller than Dallas or Chicago or LA or Houston, but not your average rural town, either.
I also am a design and marketing professional specializing in branding, identity and development for cities. It's true that retail, industry or residents don't come to a place solely because of its logo. But it's also true that in the fiercely competitive landscape of economic development (Target builds 80 to 100 stores a year... how many cities want one?) a poor image and identity alone CAN get you booted off the consideration list. This problem is especially relevant to Oklahoma, where the pervailing perception is that we're already backward and behind. Having a logo that visually confirms that notion means communities don't even get a chance to share their story.
Which leads me to two comments: 1.) This is a relevant issue... not just picking on a bad logo from a small (relatively speaking) town. 2.) The logo is truly weak, and the public commentary has been prolonged and pretty negative. The city unfortunately will have to stay with it or risk defending money spent on bad goods to the public. So, Kevin, to design for a government entity, just remember that eventually everything you do will have to be vetted to the City Council, probably the Chamber of Commere, numerous citizen groups, and you must be able to wow them with the reasons behind the decisions you made.
damon’s comment is:
I for one LOVE this logo.
i don't know what the hell you're on about, papyrus is a solid font choice, and the disconect between broken arrow and the intact arrow of the mark makes me think, long and hard about all the contradictions in life and sends me into a zen state where I find myself closer to the tao than ever before and I am at peace....finally, sweet sweet peace.
fuck that thing sucks.
On Oct.25.2007 at 09:49 AM
brock’s comment is:
that's funny damon, you said exactly what i was thinking.
On Oct.25.2007 at 10:55 AM
Brian Mays, AIGA Oklahoma President’s comment is:
As president of Oklahoma's AIGA chapter, the most disappointing part of all this to me is that an Oklahoma based design firm didn't do the work. In a year in which we celebrate our centennial and are touting the benefits of Oklahoma, one of our own cities has shipped design work outside the state when we have many talented designers in the state.
I don't know much about the process used to select the design firm and I certainly intend no ill will to that design firm. However, this seems like a vote of no confidence in the capabilities of Oklahoma based designers.
On Oct.25.2007 at 02:48 PM
Andrew Kidd’s comment is:
That is sad Brian. Maybe someone that lives in Oklahoma would have realized Papyrus comes from the Middle East and not from American Indians.
And Okie, I don't hate the font Payprus. I have used it once because I understand the typeface. It was used sparingly on a Middle Eastern menu. I don't know why people think think it needs to go on everything organic, natural, ethnic etc…
On Oct.26.2007 at 10:00 AM
darrel’s comment is:
You can't win with civil rebranding. It's either an atrocious design-by-committee behemoth or a logo that everyone hates because they weren't on the committee to design it.
On Oct.26.2007 at 01:36 PM
darrel’s comment is:
"I don't know why people think think it needs to go on everything organic, natural, ethnic"
'cuz it's the only organic/natrual/ethnic face that comes pre-installed on OSX.
Nothing ruins a good typeface more than being pre-installed. ;0)
To be fair, Papyrus is a very nice typeface. Just used in the wrong context 90% of the time.
On Oct.26.2007 at 01:44 PM
adam’s comment is:
at least they didnt use comic sans!! haha
oh, and i know "j" up there, and i know both tempe and phoenix's logos because i see them everywhere, everyday. and i work for scottsdale, so i know theirs, of course.
i am also familiar with a few of the surrounding towns logos. my current art director even worked on the logo for the next town over (gilbert) when they rebranded a few years back
On Oct.29.2007 at 12:52 PM
Mark’s comment is:
I hate papyrus. >(
On Oct.29.2007 at 04:06 PM
Kellie’s comment is:
They paid how much for that?
It looks like one of those logos you can order online for $99.
I love the article and the commentary. Great work (um...the article..NOT the mark).
On Nov.03.2007 at 11:56 PM
Doug’s comment is:
Who the hell uses Papyrus? It's only good for... well, what is it good for?
On Nov.05.2007 at 07:08 PM
Mark’s comment is:
really bad designs...I guess
On Nov.05.2007 at 10:41 PM
Josh Smith’s comment is:
vom.
On Aug.14.2008 at 06:14 PM
Kodie’s comment is:
It reminds me of this:
The current version I could find was a little on the small side to view, but the picture is over the lettering on the website. It was the first thing that came to mind. When they moved from One Beacon St. in Boston to a new office park in Canton, they named their address so they are located at One Beacon Lane. Semi-trivial bonus insurance marketing strategy, i.e. investing some part of its corporate vanity in its nominal location, wherever that may be.
On Dec.04.2008 at 11:40 AM
SCS3000’s comment is:
I grew up in Broken Arrow. It was a quiet, ideal town in the 70s & 80s before the massive housing boom and sprawl.
Now, as a designer in Oklahoma City, I have to say that I am appalled at this design. There is no sense of history or dignity.
Regarding "riverside site where Native Americans would break cane stalks to make shafts for arrows"...that's new to me and never heard it before. In fact, I don't think anyone really knows the REAL history behind the name, although there are at least a handful of stories behind it. Regardless, it makes perfect sense to me that a broken arrow should be visually represented in the logo.
And, yeah, Papyrus is not a sane font choice.
On Apr.11.2009 at 10:43 PM
Comments in Brand New, V1.0 have been closed.
